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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Chas. who wrote (111155)	8/12/2003 6:03:25 PM
From: Elsewhere	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

if the Arabs had any ability to learn anything beyond what their Camel eats and drinks If I was a moderator this post would earn you a one-week ban.

To: Chas. who wrote (111155)	8/12/2003 6:04:54 PM
From: aladin	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Chuck, The afghans are not arabs. The real question is could we provide the right material to let them develop peacefully. We can no longer afford to let failed states exist. The question of culpability into why they failed is moot. John

To: Chas. who wrote (111155)	8/12/2003 6:14:46 PM
From: marcos	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

What a coincidence, around here we say the same thing about a certain other nation, only it's not camels in that case but SUVs, sorry i can't specify which bunch we're talking about, due to the thread regs, but here is their chant we hear resounding over the border [and many other borders these days] - 'Show me the OIL..... Show me the OIL..... Show me the OIL..... Show me the OIL..... Show me the OIL..... Show me the OIL..... ' ... and it just goes on like that, rhymes nice but kind of boring overall, and we don't let them breed here so they're not stamped on any of our coins or anything But back to Afghanistan, it was the foreigners there who were speaking arabic ..... some afghans tell stories about being descended from Alexander the Great, well i know where you come from you understand the relative value of stories, still you have to admit that there is underlying aspiration to humanity as their basis, eh .... they are proud independent people capable of a great deal, but lacking at the moment a belief structure that permits them to express these qualities in a positive manner ...... surely you can grasp this, you've watched the Sopranos haven't you?

To: Chas. who wrote (111155)	8/12/2003 8:27:56 PM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I would hope that with this kind of post you will not be with us much longer, chuck. The worst kind of stereotype.

To: Chas. who wrote (111155)	8/12/2003 8:42:23 PM
From: michael97123	Respond to of 281500

Chuck you go to far and you embarras folks who have supported Bush policy. I wont stand for that language regardless if it applies to friend or foe. Mike

To: Chas. who wrote (111155)	8/13/2003 1:26:45 AM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi chuck; Re: "If the Arabs had any ability to learn anything beyond what their Camel eats and drinks don't you think they might already be somewhat civilized ..." Your view on the Arabs is one that is undoubtedly shared, subrosa, by a lot of the supporters of our actions in Iraq. It's great to have someone openly subscribe to it, as otherwise we are discussing something other than the real issues. Despite the complaints from the "PC" crowd, I think it's great that you feel sure enough of your position that you are willing to publicly debate it. And I think that your view should be publicly debated. Here are some points I'd like you to reply to: (a) The inability of the Arabs to learn suggests that they will never learn that they have been beaten. In fact, this is the Israeli experience, that the Arabs just keep fighting. Unlike the Germans and Japanese, both very intelligent races, the Arabs are unteachable, so the examples of how the US led Japan and Germany away from their totalitarian ways does not apply to Iraq. Bush's attempt to remake Iraq is hopeless due to the fundamental inability of the Arab people to learn. (b) Are you really sure that the Arabs are not "civilized"? Can you name a science that, for example, the quintessentially Arab nation Saudi Arabia is unable to teach in their universities? Or is it a matter of a problem with the average level of intelligence among the Arabs? Is it that Arabs are basically like black people, but not tall enough to play basketball and not having good rhythm? I'd like to hear a more complete discussion of the inadequacies of the Arabs, especially with answers to questions like is it a problem with their genetics or their culture. Is there any scientific data supporting this? (c) I suppose that it's possible that we can beat a little sense into the Iraqis (despite their inability to learn), but given that the Arabs possess so little ability to learn, why would that make any kind of change in the rest of the Middle East? It's not like Syria, for example, has not already had the example of a fair, prosperous, non violent and democratic nation (Israel) in their midst for 50 years. You would think that any nation would advance itself simply by imitating a neighbor, but the Arabs just couldn't learn. But anyway, the problem with the Iraq invasion is that if the only way of teaching civility to an Arab is with the military, then doesn't that make our problem in the Middle East 5x bigger? (Iraq is only about 1/4 the Arab population of the Middle East.) (d) What about the Iranians? Do they have any ability to learn anything? Are their any other races or ethnic groups that we should be warned of? My opinion is that all the various corners of the planet are peopled by people of pretty much the same intellectual abilities, so I really would like to hear you expound on where the morons live. Americans could go over there and make a good living out of selling sand to the Arabs or whatever is appropriate. Again, thanks for breaking the ice with your post. These are important underlying issues that are not recognized in the august pages of Foreign Affairs, but should, since they are so important to international affairs. -- Carl