Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Moderate Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Brumar89 who wrote (3220)	8/19/2003 12:27:10 AM
From: xcr600	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 20773

Baghdad Welcome Going Sour for U.S. Soldiers Mon August 18, 2003 12:11 PM ET By Andrew Cawthorne BAGHDAD (Reuters) - When U.S. soldiers first rolled into Baghdad and overthrew Saddam Hussein, Iraqis embraced them but as civilian deaths mount they have become widely shunned and feared. Rather than hailing occupying troops as liberators, many of Baghdad's five million residents sullenly cross streets with their heads down at the sight of a U.S. soldier or tank. "We are full of fear, bad fear. They were in my area for one month and I did not have any contact with them. They see us, we see them, nothing more," businessman Ammar Abbas said. "We cannot live here together, us and the American forces. They should go now." American soldiers, facing daily guerrilla attacks that have killed 60 U.S. troops since May 1, are tense and edgy and have been involved in a string accidental killings of civilians. Even in the Sadr City slum, where Shi'ite Muslims oppressed by Saddam gave soldiers a tumultuous welcome in April, a dispute over a flag triggered protests in which an Iraqi was shot dead and four were wounded by U.S. forces. U.S. soldiers at checkpoints in Baghdad and elsewhere have shot dead several civilians for failing to stop in time. In the wealthy Mansur district, five Iraqis were killed accidentally last month by troops hunting Saddam. Earlier this month, two Iraqi policemen were killed by U.S. troops who thought they were guerrillas. And on Sunday, Reuters cameraman Mazen Dana, a Palestinian, was shot dead by soldiers who mistook his camera for a weapon. UNDER FIRE The accidental killings by U.S. forces and daily arrests of Iraqis suspected of backing Saddam have struck fear into Iraqis and hurt U.S. hopes of winning hearts and minds. Many Iraqis say they want the Americans to go, and feel let down by the administration of U.S. governor Paul Bremer. "Mr Bremer went on TV and said now Iraqi people have the right to speak their minds about Saddam and also, if they want, about Mr Bremer himself," policeman Saef al-Deen Muhi Farej said. "Well let me speak my mind -- Mr Bremer is a liar." Farej is one of many Iraqis searching for news about relatives rounded up the Americans. He says his father, a 55-year-old army officer who retired with ill health after the 1991 Gulf War, was arrested on July 25 as a suspected pro-Saddam militant. Farej has not seen him since. "He was forced, by the threat of jail, to train the Fedayeen (militia) for two months in 1995, so his name was on a list. But he spent the war sitting at home, a sick man. Now I don't know if he's dead or alive. And if I, a policeman, can't find any information about him, what about the simple people?" Recognizing growing ire at its sometimes heavy-handed tactics, the U.S. military has apologized for the Sadr City incident, promised to process as quickly as possible its 5,500 detainees, and vowed to investigate the civilian deaths. The Americans argue that guerrilla attacks force them to stay on full alert and hamper their reconstruction efforts. Some 43,000 soldiers are in Baghdad out of a total 132,000 U.S. contingent in Iraq. "We were glad Saddam went. But let's be clear, the Americans entered as occupiers not liberators. They were not invited," said barber Saad Mahmoud, his friends nodding in agreement. "We have a saying in Iraq -- 'Black dog or white dog, they're all the same.' Saddam Hussein, George Bush, they are both bad. They are here to steal our oil. I don't think they will go in a hundred years, a thousand years." reuters.com

To: Brumar89 who wrote (3220)	8/19/2003 2:42:15 AM
From: Dale Baker	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 20773

It's curious that more than a decade of Conservative domination in British politics ended up in the total disarray of the Conservative Party and no youth support for their cause (not to mention the longest serving Labor prime minister in many decades) - like the Reagan-Bush era yielded eight years of Clinton and Shrub's very conservative presidency will yield.....? Funny how conservatives stand for "eternal" principles yet they rarely seem to achieve electoral domination for more than a typical mood-swing cycle in the western democracies. The societies continue to become more liberal over time; new conservative governments can roll back less and less of the old liberal reforms. Even the Bushie young Republicans embrace social issues that are anathema to the oldsters in the party. A pretty strong historical tide to buck. JMHO.