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Pastimes : Clown-Free Zone... sorry, no clowns allowed -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Secret_Agent_Man who wrote (256908)	8/20/2003 8:34:33 PM
From: stockman_scott	Respond to of 436258

ANYONE THINK WE NEED A PRESIDENT WHO WOULD FOLLOW THROUGH ON HIS PROMISES...? The Last Word: Wesley Clark stacks.msnbc.com Marching on Washington? NEWSWEEK INTERNATIONAL July 14 issue — For a self-described “nonpolitical” person, Gen. Wesley K. Clark finds himself in an unusual position: considering a run for the White House. Earlier this year, a grass-roots organization started a campaign to persuade the four-star general to run in 2004. Clark recently received more than a thousand letters from supporters in New Hampshire urging him to run, and last week draftwesleyclark.com opened its national headquarters in Washington, D.C. FOR DEMOCRATS LOOKING to take back the Oval Office, Clark’s resume is a godsend—he spent 34 years in the military and served as NATO Supreme Allied Commander and commander in chief of the U.S. European Command from 1997 to May 2000. Clark has not yet decided to take the plunge, but his name has got America buzzing. NEWSWEEK’s Michael Hastings asked for his views on how Washington is handling its global role. Excerpts at: stacks.msnbc.com <<...If you decide to run, will you be looking forward to the political realm? I love being in the business community. I’m thrilled at the prospect that someday I might be able to create jobs for other people. On the other hand, I’ve always liked the battle of ideas. And to me, competing in the political arena should be first and foremost about the ideas and perspectives that candidates would bring to the tasks, then following through on what’s been promised...>>

To: Secret_Agent_Man who wrote (256908)	8/20/2003 8:45:53 PM
From: JD	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 436258

If I might poke in here, the key word in Haim's quote is 'indiscriminately'. The unfortunate civilians who died in Iraq were not targets, there were great efforts made to limit such casualties. Whereas in Israel any & all citizens are targets... You just posted a very nice Ron Paul quote...I suggest you take a look at the site linked at the bottom of this page and read enough until you understand the source and 'foundation' of his philosophy. You wrote: "dont cry for one set of women and children, cry for them all" Even though we mourn the deaths of innocent 'women & children' all over, one must be very careful in how you respond to the situation which caused those deaths...most 'aid' to Africa & Middle East just ends up enriching those despots who are denying basic freedoms to their citizens. The folks at the Ann Rand institute have summed up the situation better than I could: No Moral Equality Between Israel and Its Enemies "Israel and those who attack it are not moral equals. Israel is a free, Westernized country, which recognizes the individual rights of its citizens (such as their right to property and freedom of speech). It uses military force only in self-defense, in order to protect itself. Those attacking Israel, by contrast, are terrorist organizations, theocracies, dictatorships and would-be-dictators. They do not recognize the individual rights of their own subjects, much less those of the citizens of Israel. They initiate force indiscriminately in order to retain and expand their power. In contrast to the state of Israel, such organizations and regimes have no moral right to exist. Fundamentally, Israel is the target of these organizations and regimes precisely because of its virtues: it is an oasis of freedom and prosperity in a desert of tyranny and stagnation..." ..."Like America's war against the Taliban and al-Queda, the Arab - Israeli dispute is a conflict between opposing philosophies. On the one side are the forces of mysticism, medieval tribalism, dictatorship - and terror; on the other side are the forces of reason, individualism, capitalism - and civilization." "and be afraid of a gov. that only reports what they deem to be newsworthy and in their own self interest..." I know you were referring to the US in this quote, and I agree that we have lost many of our freedoms these past few years - and I know that to get balanced reporting on many issues, it is best to read an 'offshore' source like the BBC rather than just sit and watch 'Faux' news...but if you want to see real censorship, just visit any of the 12th century Kingdoms that make up most of the M.E. Although if you decide to visit Saudi Arabia, you better go soon as it is starting to appear that the House of Fraud...er, Saud may not be around too much longer. Thanks for the Ron Paul quote, Jerry aynrand.org

To: Secret_Agent_Man who wrote (256908)	8/20/2003 10:14:07 PM
From: Haim R. Branisteanu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

OT - JD answered you, no need to comment further. BTW at the time Ruwanda was all the time in the news as was Somalia, Sudan, Kosovo, Bosnia and other Yugoslav republics....... the list is long Further, ask yourself where were the horrific events of Sept. 11 openly celebrated on the town streets ? ........ until realizing that they actually need the help of the US or Fireworks burst over Hebron on Tuesday night as Palestinians there celebrated the bombing. Sorry for misunderstanding my post