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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bilow who wrote (113103)	8/27/2003 9:30:21 PM
From: Sig	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

I guess they built those Red cross workers different in the old days hospitalshipbritannic.com At least three witnesses gave "good evidence" of having seen: - a periscope -the wake of a torpedo and its direction -the torpedo track- just before the explosion. This statement was given by steward P. Walters who had seen torpedo practice before while serving in the Royal Navy. He even clutched the rails waiting for the explosion. However, he didn't claim to have seen the torpedo itself (Walters saw the torpedo track on the port side according to maritime historian Simon Mills). -the wake of a torpedo on the port side missing aft In Simon Mills' book there's also the testimony of baker H. Etches who claimed to have seen a torpedo track further aft but on the starboard side. This statement at first glance is controversial, but if the second torpedo (launched from the port side) had missed the rudder, its track could be visible from the starboard side too. The official inquiry also notices that the sea was "glassy smooth", which means that it would be quite easy to spot a torpedo track. Rev. John Fleming's account: In his book "The last voyage of HMHS Britannic", Rev. John Fleming reports that "...Numbers of the ship's people agree that they saw what they took to be a torpedo miss the rudder, and a second one find us in the bow...".In addition, he reports that the Greek villagers had seen a submarine going out early that same morning, just hours before the passage of the Britannic. diggerhistory.info And still they did not quit. Sig

To: Bilow who wrote (113103)	8/28/2003 3:41:18 AM
From: stockman_scott	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

FADG thread: just wait until the American people learn of this latest bombshell just posted on the LA Times website. It looks like the PNAC crowd was duped. Go figure... latimes.com U.S. Questions Pre-War Intelligence By Bob Drogin Times Staff Writer 7:38 PM PDT, August 27, 2003 <<...WASHINGTON -- Frustrated at the failure to find Saddam Hussein's suspected stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, U.S. and allied intelligence agencies have launched a major effort to determine if they were victims of bogus Iraqi defectors who planted disinformation to mislead the West before the war. The goal, according to a senior U.S. intelligence official, "is to see if false information was put out there and got into legitimate channels and we were totally duped on it." He added, "We're re-interviewing all our sources of information on this. This is the entire intelligence community, not just the U.S."...>> <<...Although senior CIA officials insist that defectors were only partly responsible for the intelligence that triggered the decision to invade Iraq in March, other intelligence officials now fear that key portions of the prewar information may have been flawed. The issue raises fresh doubts as to whether illicit weapons will be found in Iraq...>>