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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (73899)	9/4/2003 5:09:34 PM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

The classic situation is one in which the women seems uncertain, says no, responds to further advances, breaks it off again, and, after some further back and forth, seems to agree to the sex in the face of further aggressive advances, by ceasing to resist. Often, both parties are young and drunk, and rarely does the guy do more than press himself against her. Under current definitions of "violence or the threat of violence", his sexual aggressiveness might be considered rape, but I would not call it so. Again, I do not mean that he should not be liable for some sort of sexual assault, if he penetrates without permission, but I would say that what had gone on fell short of true rape, and amounted to confusion and aggressiveness, which is heavily associated with male sexuality.........

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (73899)	9/4/2003 6:52:33 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Once a woman says "NO! LEAVE ME ALONE!" and you persist, is not your persistence force? If I tell you leave me alone and you grab me and swing me around, you have committed battery. Absolutely. But after the NO! LEAVE ME ALONE is the man entitled to continue trying purely by persuasion and wheedling and gifts of flowers and candy to change the no to a yes? Does he have to take the LEAVE ME ALONE as absolute? If so, a lot of happy marriages today would never have happened. When I was a teenager, we were told that you could ask a girl for a date three times. Even if she said no the first two times, you were entitled -- even expected -- to ask a third time. But if the third time was no, that meant no, and move on.