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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (73973)	9/5/2003 10:32:52 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

I disagree that this is what you are doing. When you talk about the woman's ambiguity, you are clearly shifting the burden, imo, of course. We'll just have to disagree on that too.

To: Neocon who wrote (73973)	9/5/2003 11:35:05 AM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

We have, so far, carried out this whole discussion in the context of males raping females, since that is factually the more common situation (though if we were talking about crimes in general and were assuming black perpetrators because in actual experience blacks are convicted of committing crimes more often by far than whites we would be accused of insensitivy and racism, but nobody thinks to accuse people who speak of rape always as male on female as insensitive and sexist). But also interesting is the question of when and under what conditions a women rapes a man if she won't take no for an answer. Suppose you have a power inbalance -- doctor patient, teacher student, etc. -- where the dominant female used her influence to coerce sex out of an unwilling male. Are we here also willing to call that rape, an jail the woman for life, the same sentence Kobe Bryant is facing? [Think The Graduate for starters]

To: Neocon who wrote (73973)	9/5/2003 12:47:06 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

"I am not trying to take the burden off the man." "Shifting" is an interesting focus of this topic, not just on this thread but generally in our cultuture. You have been arguing only the responsibility of the male and that the male is accountable at varying degrees depending on the circumstance. Without taking anything away from the male we can ask if the female has any power, any authority, any right to responsibility over her own sexuality (without shifting any burden). You might think this argument is attractive to the relative extremists here but obviously when you pick on a pet lefty topic they see only black and white. The argument that a female has any responsibility for her own sexual experiences falls on deaf ears. Thank God my daughters dont listen to that crap. The left wing seems to prefer to see women as powerless victims in society. Which, of course, fuels protected status issues that play so heavily in politics.