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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: GST who wrote (115204)	9/18/2003 11:00:40 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Aren't you confusing cause and effect? Not one of the checkpoints was there before the intifada. In fact, before 1987, there wasn't even a marker on the Green Line.

To: GST who wrote (115204)	9/19/2003 5:21:19 AM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

GST, fences can be to fence things out, or in. In the case of the Great Wall of China and the Great Fence of Israel, they are to keep people out. As were most walls around castles, towns and across countries. <They are educated as they watch themselves being fenced in, as the Jews themselves were once so horribly fenced into the Warsaw ghetto. > Those two fences are totally different. One is to keep people in. One to keep them out. They couldn't be more different. I suppose we could argue that the Dachau-style fences were to keep people out [of the surrounding society]. But that's stretching the use of language since there was no externality for those so imprisoned [or kept out]. Palestinians, kept out of Israel, still have the whole world as an externality with which they can associate, trade or move to. Not all fences and walls are equivalent. Mqurice

To: GST who wrote (115204)	9/19/2003 7:43:48 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Palestinians are educated when they try to go to school or try to go to work or try to visit relatives who live more than a few blocks from them. How about when they visit the 20% of the Israeli population that is Arab, and have a better standard of living than they do? There was a time when the Israelis, as a people, would have favored helping the Palestinians build a viable state.. A state they could have traded with, lived in peace with, and even possibly lived in as citizens.. But the Palestinian, or more appropriately, their leadership(and lack thereof) has been far more intolerant of Jews, as well as any sense of moderation amongst any Palestinian leaders who see that no Palestinian state is truly viable without entre to Israeli markets. Arafat, and religious militants, have been responsible for this.. egged on my Arab financial support from Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc... Personally, I'm sick of how people of your ilk constantly excuse the behavior of the Palestinian leadership.. I'm sick of you all ignoring the hatred and racism they continue to indoctrinate into the minds and hearts of their young children. By doing so, it's almost certain that the Palestinian people will never be able to achieve a harmonious and mutually beneficial relationship with Israel. The fact that all trade routes from Israel to most other Arab nations transit Palestinian controlled territory should be more than sufficient to cause folks to ponder the tremendous opportunities they have missed because of their intolerance. Something they NEVER had under Jordanian occupation/rule... So preach your excuses for racism to someone who wants to hear it. I'm a pragmatist, with a BA from the School of Hard Knocks, and a Phd from the University of Whatever Works... I have no time for willful forgiveness of such institutionalized hatred. Hawk