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To: Haim R. Branisteanu who wrote (38969)	9/29/2003 9:19:28 PM
From: TobagoJack	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Hello Haim, <<your are singling out China, and their policies are only part of the problem>> Actually I am not. I am singling out the US, for its monetary policy and consumption addiction is engendering bigger bubbles after smaller bubbles all around the world even as it encourages economic development for those who are able. So, I accept that we must take the not wise with the good, and make the best of a muddling through process, absent magical solutions to complicated problems. FYI Message 19353871 . ... and so are you absolutely certain you want to see <<China and their policies>> enabled financing to be cut off to the largest debtor nation in the world at this crucial moment, and see rising imported inflation at this important juncture, all at the same go, and at the same time further destroy what economy there is in places like <<Indonesia>> and <<Pakistan to mention a few>>? Are you totally fearless? I know folks like you because my dear but departed father was a member of your tribe. I am all for civilization and humanity, and in a theoretical way, I am all for demolishment of child labour and all vestiges of poverty. In fact, if possible, I do not even want to work myself. Practically, however, money does not grow on trees and wealth does not emerge from money press. Kids, who are not allowed to work and cannot go to school, will do precisely what in your idealized world? Taiwan, Korea, Japan all had child labour and did not have minimum wage in the ‘beginning’. Now they do not have child labour and still do not have minimum wage. The US, in its early history, at the beginning of its economic climb out of dark ages, did not have minimum wage, and in fact had slavery and child labour, together with stolen land. Why is it that you expect the Indonesias and Pakistans of this world to achieve what the US could not? The Indonesias and Pakistans may fail in any case, but they will not be failing because they have child labour and have no minimum wage. If you think you a facing a problem now, you will certainly have a bigger problem in the future as desired by your wish list of haphazard reforms. At that point, as we cannot put the whole regions of the world on welfare, will your solution also be of the Final flavor as you suggested before, as in nukes? Oops, inadvertently I fell into the situation of carrying on this conversation Message 19326254 <<September 21st, 2003>> that we agreed to agree to disagree, and so I will stop now :0) Chugs, Jay

To: Haim R. Branisteanu who wrote (38969)	9/29/2003 11:03:45 PM
From: TobagoJack	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Hello Haim, I have good, bad and possibly ugly news for you, depending on your point of view, and your enthusiasm for inevitable progress under the guidance of free-market and small government :0) Message 19354365 China’s reserves reach record $364.7bn Message 19354367 China rethinks "go-for-growth" strategy “…The new strategy determines that growth must be "comprehensive, co-ordinated and sustainable", indicating a more selective approach than that defined by Deng Xiaoping, architect of China's reforms. The late Mr Deng's mantra that "development is the core truth" was used to endorse any project, irrespective of the social impact …” Message 19354369 Chinese groups to boost PTA production “…The proposed new plants, mainly in Zhejiang province, near Shanghai, could see China manufacturing about half of the global output of purified terephthalic acid (PTA) by 2006, up from just a quarter in 2000.…” Message 19354371 Foreign investors eye Chinese farming “…"China can be Asia's farm and kitchen," says Ian Neeland, an Australian agronomist based in China who has just launched a project in Xinzhou county, near Taiyuan. For many countries already rattled by China's emergence as the manufacturing "workshop of the world", the prospect that it could also become a significant farm exporter will be unwelcome news…” …and no, the Final Solution ala nukes will not be suitable for stopping China’s 800 million peasants from engaging in ‘obviously unfair competition’ in the agricultural area where they are all working without the benefit of minimum wage, aided by a ‘obviously unjust’ low exchange rate, and possibly even have some children doing some work over their summer school holidays. Chugs, Jay

To: Haim R. Branisteanu who wrote (38969)	9/30/2003 6:07:21 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

Haim, even if children cost nothing, they can't replace machines. <Most products have a relative low direct labor content today, but if child labor is cheaper than cost of capital invested in manufacturing equipment, we are facing a problem > A computer chip has to be made in a super clean factory worth $billions. Children, or adults, can't sit unpaid in the dirt in India making ASICs or Toyotas or digging oil. Also, children working is a good idea and they should start before they are five so that working is intuitive. Work and education go hand in hand. Minimum wage laws are a stupid idea. Everyone has a different value and there is no minimum. Some people have negative value and must be kept in cages all their lives to stop them harming others. I worked at Auckland Sheltered Workshops a few decades ago and those people weren't worth a minimum wage, though some of them could do some simple jobs. That was a place for mentally and physically handicapped young adults. So, was that a joke about damaging China's productive capacity as suggested by Pearly Button? It seemed as though you actually thought it a good idea. It was me who mentioned the noocular attack option to reduce China's productive capacity. What method would you recommend? My opinion is that China, India, Pakistan and Indonesia aren't part of a problem. They are part of a solution which is humans versus the cosmos, which is out to get us. I like buying cheap stuff Made in China. I don't see a problem with that. Mqurice