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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (76165)	10/2/2003 10:38:18 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

"Some people loathe human resources personnel, due to a sense that they are insincere, condescending, and manipulative." There are always "some people" to loathe anything. Is it a fact that HR people are "insincere, condescending, and manipulative"? Or is it just that "some people" sense them to be so? It would be terribly unfair for you to drop a suggestion such as you have done if your only basis is a personal prejudice. But perhaps you have statistics which motivated your comments? Do you have evidence that HR people as a group are insincere, and is there a developed rationale for that? I would appreciate some links. I had not heard this theory before.

To: Neocon who wrote (76165)	10/2/2003 12:36:14 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Ah, I see my name mentioned. You have demonstrated some excellent incite. Speaking for my self I can say that I don't mind attempts at being managed by a motherly caring individual. It feels like that warm cocoa I mentioned earlier. However, it becomes a problem for me when the manager is blocking communication going in one direction while a flood of challenges are coming from the other. It becomes more like holding one of the dogs down when a pack of vicious dogs are after him. In this case the manager had her own dog in the fight making it even more bother some... Apologies ahead of time for all the 'sensitive' members of this thread who tend to be insulted by the truth...

To: Neocon who wrote (76165)	10/2/2003 12:49:42 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

You do not think that childishness in a middle aged man probably reflects on his character? I don't recall Mojo's age ever being mentioned. I assumed him to be a young man, although I don't really know why. Perhaps it was his not-exactly-sophisticated views. I suppose he couldn't be too young since he already had an established business, but he sounded like early to mid twenties. I thought him a few years older than my neighbor who just finished her training. She appears to be maybe twenty. I've been noticing stories about this trend toward chastity in young people. It seems reasonable to me for a young, chaste man to have Mojo's attitudes. I don't see anything negative, character wise, in that. Inexperienced. Idealistic. Sheltered. All that does seem silly to sophisticates, but silly isn't a character defect. I made the point during the discussion that, when I was a sweet innocent thing, I had trouble differentiating sexual situations, so it's not hard for me to explain it away as youth and inexperience. It seems strange to me that any young man wouldn't have a better feel for how the mainstream operates than that, but if he had been raised in a fairly closed community, had his TV use monitored, and was home schooled or the product of a religious school, he could reach the age of having a profession without achieving greater sophistication in such matters. So, no. I don't think that there's a negative reflection on his character. At worst, he's a bumpkin. Not complimentary, but not a negative regarding character. You are much nicer than the average HR person Just for the record, I was not an HR person, average or otherwise. If I seem "insincere, condescending, and manipulative," I achieved that without the excuse of my profession. My career was spent in management information systems and management, both line and staff, and most recently in internal management consulting. If you want a quick category for my line of work, something along the lines of what used to be called an "efficiency expert" might do. You might find it interesting to know that everyone at EPA was trained in consensus processes and expected to operate that way. Team, team, team. Collaboration, collaboration, collaboration. Perhaps the people EPA regulates don't see the results, but the training and the emphasis definitely happened. Re the rep of HR, I recall your telling me once before how much your wife and her colleagues disliked and distrusted the consensus folks. This has caused a longstanding sense of suspicion and grievance. I appreciate your sharing your insight. Since I have always been one of those people that others naturally trust--I mentioned earlier, cats, dogs, children, little old ladies, even union reps--I have grown to assume it and was having difficulty making sense of Jewel's reaction. So your insight helps. Actually, I do take Jewel seriously, but I'm sure there's no way I can change his impression.