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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Sun Tzu who wrote (116277)10/6/2003 8:37:16 AM
From: epicure  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Goodwill Suffers During a Pay Protest in Baghdad
Americans yell at and manhandle Iraqis, few or none of whom understand English.





By Tyler Marshall, Times Staff Writer

BAGHDAD — It was a minor incident, a small blip in the stream of events that are shaping the new, American-controlled Iraq.

But the confrontation that unfolded in central Baghdad on Sunday, pitting a few hundred former Iraqi army conscripts against U.S. military forces and the newly reconstituted Iraqi police, said much about the difficulties Americans face as occupiers of a country many of them barely understand.

By the time the morning-long standoff had ended, the American soldiers had succeeded in preventing violence, but at the cost of something intangible yet vital to the longer-term success of the American involvement in Iraq: goodwill.

There was manhandling of protesters, screaming in English — a language few, if any, in the crowd understood — and a shoving match with an Iraqi police captain helping to calm the unruly crowd. In the end, the Americans were left with few new friends.

"Saddam Hussein is gone, but now it's worse than Saddam Hussein," said Hatim Jasim Khalaf, a 26-year-old former Iraqi army private who said he was making his fifth attempt to collect the $40-a-month payment promised by occupation authorities. "We just want justice. We only want what's rightfully ours."

Like most of those who had gathered along a main road near the disbursement center where ex-soldiers collect their pay, Khalaf had become increasingly frustrated by his inability to receive his stipend. "If there's no pay [soon], we'll use violence," he vowed.

On Saturday, frustration over the same issue triggered rioting in Baghdad and two other cities. Coalition military spokesman Lt. Col. George Krivo said Sunday that three rioters were killed and scores hurt in those disturbances.

The Pentagon on Sunday announced two soldiers' deaths. Its Web site said Spc. James H. Pirtle, 27, of La Mesa, N.M., was killed when a rocket-propelled grenade struck his vehicle Saturday in As Sadiyah. Pfc. Charles M. Simms, 18, of Miami drowned in an accident the day before in Baghdad. A total of 315 American troops have died in the conflict.

Precisely what has ignited the unrest over pay remained unclear. Occupation authorities said more than 320,000 former Iraqi soldiers had received their pay, and blamed former Baathist regime provocateurs for spreading false rumors, including one that the payroll money had run out.

The protesters who gathered Sunday were driven by a different concern: that those responsible for distributing the money had pocketed it themselves. "They make you sign, then they take your money," said Sayeed Hussein, a 24-year-old former Iraqi army private. His eyes welled with rage.

American troops, attempting to move the crowd off a major street, grabbed and pushed the protesters, as one soldier shouted, "Get the ... back onto the sidewalk! Do you understand that?" Few did.

During an hourlong attempt to break up the protest, the American troops apparently did not try to communicate with the demonstrators in their own language, Arabic. One uniformed Arabic speaker who appeared to be working for U.S. forces threatened demonstrators with a billy club.

When Iraqi police Capt. Basim Khamis moved in to stop the translator, a uniformed American turned on the police officer and yelled, "You take care of your people, I'll take care of mine!" He then shoved Khamis backward.

Offended, Khamis shouted back, "I know my people. I will protect my people."

After a few tense moments, the two law enforcement authorities patched up their differences. The gathering broke up when Baghdad's new police chief, Hassan Ali Ubaydi, announced by megaphone that the ex-soldiers' grievances had been passed on to the Interior Ministry and asked them to choose 10 representatives to meet with him today.

Speaking to reporters at a briefing later in the day, Krivo said U.S. forces received cultural sensitivity training and that any reports of abuse would be investigated. He added that 99% of the thousands of U.S. military patrols carried out in Iraq have come off peacefully, with friendly contact with locals.

Civilian authority spokesman Charles Heatly said, "Remember, no one before last April even dared raise a hand against the authorities."

That fact seemed to elicit little sympathy among Sunday's demonstrators, who after hours of facing the U.S. soldiers began chanting in Arabic, "America, no! America, no!"

latimes.com



To: Sun Tzu who wrote (116277)10/6/2003 11:11:53 AM
From: KLP  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
The relevant questions are (a) how much of a threat Saddam's support was and (b) did we counter it in the best way possible.

I think it was just a matter of time until Saddam got nuks...he was trying to get them from North Korea, as you probably know --see news today, and also the 1999 Report to the US House on North Korea...I've posted the official link several times. Personally, I'm not willing to just be the stationary target any longer (i.e. WTC I, then WTC II, USS Cole, Kobar Towers, etc etc etc). A bit of proactive action is preferable against the groups who have made their open and quite focal intention to destroy the West, including America.

The United States has supported many terrorist groups...errr...freedom fighters...against other governments. Do you then find it justifiable for those countries to bomb US because we provided refuge to their opposition?

Frankly, Sun Tzu, I'm finally tired. Tired of giving so much to those who don't appreciate the gift, and then blaming America because it tried to help.

If America hadn't helped Europe in WWII, most probably Europe would be living entirely differently than today. And many of the people most probably wouldn't have been alive at all, as Hitler was on his way to killing millions more.

What other country in the world helps the US when we need it? (Floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, etc?)

And to answer your last question, specifically what people/countries are you referring to?