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To: patron_anejo_por_favor who wrote (84091)	10/13/2003 3:27:33 PM
From: Hawk	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 209892

Going to be hard for Pedro to win in NY under circumstances.

To: patron_anejo_por_favor who wrote (84091)	10/13/2003 4:19:32 PM
From: reaper	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 209892

if by the "whole incident", you mean starting w/ Pedro's attempt to take off Garcia's head, all i really have to say is i'm disappointed and embarrassed to be a lover of the Red Sox (and afraid to show my face in Yankee stadium for Games 6 & 7 (if necessary) despite decent seats). it is unfortunate, but the record is pretty clear that when Pedro starts getting whacked around he throws at guys. Pedro had nothing, at least early, on Saturday; his pitch location was way off (not materially different that Mussina on Wednesday, despite Mussina's protestations to the contrary). now, the whole thing should have ended when Garcia almost killed Walker at 2B on Soriano's double-play grounder; he didn't even start sliding until he was past the bag, he could have really hurt Walker had Walker not obviously anticipated what was coming, and in any normal game / circumstance he would have been (i) thrown out; and (ii) roundly beaten to a pulp by the fans; but of course in the "eye-for-an-eye" unwritten laws of baseball it was deemed an acceptable play. so that's it. Martinez almost kills Garcia, Garcia almost kills Walker as payback, everybody's even, and we start playing again. what i am surprised that nobody is talking about is what Clemens did next. yes, the pitch was almost over the plate, but it was eye-high and coming from a guy with a well-deserved head-hunting reputation. while the pitch was obviously not designed to HIT Manny, it was just as obviously designed to BAIT him. it was the functional equivalent of your little brother poking you until you smack him upside the head, and then crying to your mom to ground you for the weekend 'cause you hit him. i'm not saying that what Clemens did was "wrong" per se, as on some level its all part of the gamesmanship of baseball and Manny was dumb enough to take the bait. but Clemens knew the situation full well and throwing one high and tight on Manny there was handing a known arsonist a match and then proclaiming innocence 'cause he wasn't the one to light it. and his gambit almost worked, as known knucklehead Manny took the bait and should have gotten thrown out of the game for taking his bat toward the mound. the very unfortunate side-effect was the stuff with Zimmer. as far as Pedro throwing Zimmer down, ALL (and let me repeat for emphasis ALL ALL ALL ALL) of the blame lies with Zimmer. as a COACH (and i speak here from YEARS of experience; not as many as Zimmer but enough to know better) you are held / subject to a higher level of decorum than a player. full stop. non-arguable point. i don't care if Zimmer is 100 years old and came onto the field on one of those little scooters; a coach under absolutely no circumstances should be raising his hands to strike an opposing player on the field. Zimmer got much less than what he deserved, and frankly IMO shouldn't be allowed to set foot on a little league field, let alone a MLB diamond, again. so to summarize, Pedro, Manny & Zim were all clearly grossly in the wrong and should be spending the rest of this series watching on TV. but don't absolve the suddenly cuddly Clemens of all blame, 'cause that pitch to Manny had a 'purpose' that went well beyond moving Manny off the plate. but shame on Manny for being (yet again) so utterly clueless to the world around him and taking Clemens' bait. all that said, we are toast. our "ace" is giving up 3-4 runs in 6-7 innings a start; that's not gonna do it in the post-season. for a look at what real aces do, see Kerry Wood and Mark Prior in Chicago, or Beckett yesterday. i am afraid that what is likely to be the steep downside of Pedro's career has commenced, and as a huge fan of baseball, and not just the Boston Red Sox, i am most dis-appointed in that. Cheers