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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (117184)	10/19/2003 2:51:37 AM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Hawk, we'll have to part company at the "having thoughts and expressing" them Y in the road. I'll take the freedom path. You prefer the censorship, approved thoughts and expression path. If people think the current efforts are immoral or unethical or simply disagree with the strategies, then I see no reason why they shouldn't B&M [I hadn't seen your acronym but somehow it was obvious in a second what you meant]. If enough of them take a different view, then the politicians running the show will have to mind the next election and adapt to the popular will. That's life in democracies. I dislike plenty of democratic decisions a great deal, but I abide by them because the alternative is much worse still. Most people have plenty in democracies to B&M about but we bide our time until the next election and then hope to throw the rascals out. On whether the murder of 3000 [about] people and attempted murder of umpty others was a crime or merely an act of war, I'm inclined to the crime idea. The aspect which makes it more than a crime was that the Taleban government of Afghanistan supported Osama's gang, which turns it into an actual war, though a relatively messy one, with grey political boundaries. It was comparable to Tim McVeigh's declaration of civil war by his surprise attack in Oklahoma. To me, his act was a crime. IRA acts were crimes, although they tried to dignify their horrors by calling themselves an army and republican. They had no official state support, though some officials in the USA and Ireland seemed to think the cause a freedom-fighting one for justice. They now see things a bit more clearly since some freedom-fighting was done right there in New York. Since there is no political system covering Osama's gang, and they are non-resident and non-citizens of the USA, then I suppose that makes his attacks a war of sorts, rather than crimes. I don't think it is gall to call the Twin Tower attacks crimes. The Pentagon and Cole and embassy attacks might more reasonably be called war. But attacks on civilians is more in the nature of a crime. Tim McVeigh's attacks were against state facilities, so in a way, they were more war-like, albeit civil war, than Osama's Twin Towers attacks. Whether crime or war is a matter of semantics. The reality is what matters. There is a lack of political framework which keeps things on an even keel, so there's a lot of fighting for primacy in the primates. In the absence of an international legal system, Osama's actions are more like war because there is no definition of crime, since there is no law covering the situation. There's no international authority to capture, prosecute etc other than the inadequate processes of the much maligned United Nations. Meanwhile, back in the jungle, if you want a serious threat to the USA, it's right there in the orbit of a mountainous meteor which is now on track for a splashdown in the Pacific Ocean. The tsunami will wash away everything below 200 metres above sea level. Statistically, it has something like a 1:10 chance of arriving in the next 50 years [according to statistics I just made up]. Then again, it might arrive next week. Even the puny Tunguska attack would have made quite a wave if it skooshed the Pacific Ocean instead of the forest in Siberia. I know box-cutters are nasty, but big meteors are seriously dangerous. The budget protecting the USA against that is minuscule compared with the relative risk from Osama. Fighting is traditional, but more serious danger comes from the sky. Here's the action plan: 1..... Establish the NUN constitutional conference. Those attending and wanting to join as foundation members will have to go to Baghdad and also participate in keeping the peace there. 2..... Find all the evil doers in the sky and figure out what to do [dig, run or push them]. 3..... Do some serious genetic engineering to kill all sars type things and deal with telomerase or whatever it is that gives cancer cells a free run. 4..... Do some serious genetic engineering so women can tick the genetic characteristics they want in their offspring. 5..... Learn how to salute It. [Sentient cyberspace which will rule the world with It's symbiotic servants - such as me]. Mqurice