To: TimF who wrote (176804 ) 10/20/2003 4:28:16 PM From: tejek Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1579027 I guess you're assuming that C. Powell's will not experience discrimination because they are C. Powell's children. Then your guess would be incorrect. What I said was that their ancestors where not slaves in the US, and that they where not disadvantaged. You seem to think that once slavery was abolished things were hunky dorey. Discrimination went full fore and unabated until the 1960s. Since the 60s, it has lessen but still exists. Its the centuries of discrimination and slavery that AA is making up for and it effects every minority and mixed race individual including Powell's kids.....who must be very mixed race by now.I didn't say they have never faced unfair negative discrimination, but despite that discrimination they had a lot more advantaged then the average person in the US. BS. White and male are the two biggest advantages in this country. Everything else pales by comparison. I don't have any problem with the fact that they had these advantages but I don't see why we should deliberately create more esp at the expense of creating an equivalent disadvantage for someone else. The advantages created by AA are like a drop in a large lake. No one can be sure of that given the nature of the American mindsight; hence, they're entitled to any benefits they can derive from AA. So because it can't be proved that they have not faced unfair discrimination against their interests they are entitled to unfair discrimination in their favor?!? Any person of color, someone of a religious difference and/or a women living now have all experienced discrimination at some point in their lives. Discrimination is ubiquitous in this country. Why should the question come up? AA covers both minorities. They would each get equal consideration as well any white candidates for the job. AA by definition isn't giving equal consideration, its giving some groups special consideration or bonuses. It gives all groups except white males special consideration. Why do you think that is?AA is not preferential treatment "?!?!? I can't believe you actually said that." In most instances, AA is a policy of enforced inclusion, making sure that minorities are considered for jobs. With gov't contracts, there are credits given if the contractor is a minority or a woman. In other words it is preferential treatment for minorities or women. In order to create a level playing field......due to cultural biases, white males in this society have a built in preferential treatment.Rarely, have I seen a white firm or a white male get screwed by AA. The conservatives in this country are making a mountain out of a molehill. You see it but you don't notice it. You yourself said many white males don't even try for certain types of federal contracts. Because they don't want to deal with gov't paperwork AND because they usually get the plum, private jobs. They only go after gov't work when times are bad. Also at some schools the same test levels that would exclude white people from consideration are enough to almost ensure that a black person will be accepted. Yes, I know........so what? Are you in this for the white race, or are you in this for the betterment of America?All I can add is that if you fukk with AA before its goals have been reached, we will pay for that stupidity just like segregationist folk in the 60s paid for their resistance to integration with the riots in our cities. AA is itself close to the policies of the segregationists then remove AA would be. I doubt its goals will ever be achieved because there will always be statistical disparities in one area or another and because of the way special interest politics work and because AA doesn't even attempt to deal with things like poor education in inner city schools and others things that put minorities at a disadvantage far bigger then any disadvantage racism is currently causing them . There is no good goal that AA can reach. I doubt what you say about riots is true but even if it is true avoiding riots isn't worth dealing with the injustice and practical difficulties caused by AA. AA is progress.....its a necessary step in assuring equality for all people in this country.I don't really have much more to say on the subject except that the pie is big enough for all of us. Which is not a good argument for giving some people bonuses over others when you decide what slice pie should be given out, esp when the effort makes the overall size of the pie slightly smaller. Why is it that you rail against AA but you ignore the de facto preferential treatment that goes on daily in this country? ted Subject Titles Only