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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (484134)	10/30/2003 8:31:22 PM
From: Selectric II	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769667

Secondly you seem to accept the Bushie spin that everything is hunky dorey in Iraq... Don't know where you get your news, but where I get mine, Bush isn't saying that. Are you prepared to accept an increasing number of American dead and no projected end in sight (per Rummie) without any strategy to stop the blood flow? You clearly care only about American blood, not that of the Iraqis who you would desert and leave to be slaughtered by terrorists, fundamentalists, criminals, and anarchists. Wake up and smell the coffee.

To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (484134)	10/30/2003 8:32:58 PM
From: SeachRE	Respond to of 769667

YOU are sounding like watson yourself, shepson. Your posts are out of focus, IMHO.

To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (484134)	10/30/2003 8:56:07 PM
From: DuckTapeSunroof	Respond to of 769667

(For the more mercenary of us poor, suffering taxpayers: don't forget to ask if 1/2 Trillion dollars is a cost-effective expenditure.... Especially considering that it's borrowed money. God knows what the interest costs will run.)

To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (484134)	10/30/2003 10:30:23 PM
From: Hope Praytochange	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 769667

It's No Vietnam By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN Published: October 30, 2003 nytimes.com since 9/11, we've seen so much depraved violence we don't notice anymore when we hit a new low. Monday's attacks in Baghdad were a new low. Just stop for one second and contemplate what happened: A suicide bomber, driving an ambulance loaded with explosives, crashed into the Red Cross office and blew himself up on the first day of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. This suicide bomber was not restrained by either the sanctity of the Muslim holy day or the sanctity of the Red Cross. All civilizational norms were tossed aside. This is very unnerving. Because the message from these terrorists is: "There are no limits. We have created our own moral universe, where anything we do against Americans or Iraqis who cooperate with them is O.K." What to do? The first thing is to understand who these people are. There is this notion being peddled by Europeans, the Arab press and the antiwar left that "Iraq" is just Arabic for Vietnam, and we should expect these kinds of attacks from Iraqis wanting to "liberate" their country from "U.S. occupation." These attackers are the Iraqi Vietcong. Hogwash. The people who mounted the attacks on the Red Cross are not the Iraqi Vietcong. They are the Iraqi Khmer Rouge — a murderous band of Saddam loyalists and Al Qaeda nihilists, who are not killing us so Iraqis can rule themselves. They are killing us so they can rule Iraqis. Have you noticed that these bombers never say what their political agenda is or whom they represent? They don't want Iraqis to know who they really are. A vast majority of Iraqis would reject them, because these bombers either want to restore Baathism or install bin Ladenism. Let's get real. What the people who blew up the Red Cross and the Iraqi police fear is not that we're going to permanently occupy Iraq. They fear that we're going to permanently change Iraq. The great irony is that the Baathists and Arab dictators are opposing the U.S. in Iraq because — unlike many leftists — they understand exactly what this war is about. They understand that U.S. power is not being used in Iraq for oil, or imperialism, or to shore up a corrupt status quo, as it was in Vietnam and elsewhere in the Arab world during the cold war. They understand that this is the most radical-liberal revolutionary war the U.S. has ever launched — a war of choice to install some democracy in the heart of the Arab-Muslim world. Most of the troubles we have encountered in Iraq (and will in the future) are not because of "occupation" but because of "empowerment." The U.S. invasion has overturned a whole set of vested interests, particularly those of Iraq's Sunni Baathist establishment, and begun to empower instead a whole new set of actors: Shiites, Kurds, non-Baathist Sunnis, women and locally elected officials and police. The Qaeda nihilists, the Saddamists, and all the Europeans and the Arab autocrats who had a vested interest in the old status quo are threatened by this.

To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (484134)	10/30/2003 11:53:11 PM
From: Dan B.	Respond to of 769667

Re: "Secondly you seem to accept the Bushie spin that everything is hunky dorey in Iraq" That's a lie, both Bush and Rumsfeld have stated quite the opposite all along. Everyone remembers this fact, which is why your line of attack is not effective. We already know the strategy to stop the bloodflow. We are putting Iraq back on its feet, and 10's of thousands are fighting beside us to do so, while the people are enjoying freedoms they haven't had for over 30 years. Oh yes, they will be grateful. No use pretending the Iraqi's I speak of don't exist. They are the ones you refered to long ago when you've no doubt noted we turned our back on them in the first gulf war. We will not, and should not, do so again. But Honestly, you think my post sounds like it was written by Watson? I'll be darned....ggg Dan B.