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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (35837)11/1/2003 8:22:08 PM
From: Jamey  Respond to of 39621
 
Sidney, Exactly what do you think this verse means?
"Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 13:8-12—



“Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.



For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away."

Please click this link explaining the "Signs gifts" for a deeper explanation.

christianharbor.com

Hope you understand that these gifts that were once given gave abilities to heal the sick, raise the dead and to be able to be bitten by poisonous snakes without any undue effect. Now, as a reasonable person, I believe that you no longer believe that any man has this power to do these things so why would you believe that God took away these wonders and left the rest like prophesy or foreign languages? There are no prophets today. Only charletans. To think that they are attending Christian churches, babbling and prophesying in there own human nature. No real discernment here.

James



To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (35837)11/1/2003 10:28:53 PM
From: Berry Picker  Respond to of 39621
 
>>Faith, real faith, is a power. When activated things
happen. Faith was lost, miracles were few in later times.<<

A lot of people claim that the reason miracles ceased is because
people if today do not have enough faith.

If we honestly hold to that then even Paul - lost faith because
he could no longer heal in the later part of his ministry.

That is something I can not agree with at all

Sidney what is faith?

1. A gift from God granted to some men
2. Something men must conjure up in their flesh

I can't believe anyone would actually accuse Paul fo failing to
conjure up in his flesh something he had done earlier in life - can you?

True faith - is a gift of God and it is "not of ourselves"

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith is "the gift of God"

Actually - in ourselves there is nothing good even as Paul has said:

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,)
dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me;
but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Paul openly confessed that in the flesh dwelleth no good thing

Isaiah said the same thing:

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing,
and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags;
and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities,
like the wind, have taken us away.

Those "filthy rags" actually refers to a woman's time of month rags.

Isaiah teaches that what we do in our flesh as acts of righteousness were filthy.

We can not 'work the works of God' in our flesh.

A verse that is commonly misused is the following:

Matthew 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Some men dare to teach that Jesus COULD NOT DO miracles
because the "unbelief" of others stopped Him.

Now that is a curious teaching because even God ends up being
overpowered by faithless men - how foolish.
Besides that is it not the one DOING the miracles that has to have the faith?

Jesus did not many mighty works their because He chose not to do them
in the midst of such faithlessness - not because he could not.
The verse does not say He could not but rather that He did not.
The verse also does not say that He did NO miracles there
- which would have to be the case if their 'lack of faith'
actually had anything to do with it.

Jesus often asked men 'if they believed He could heal them'
most answered they did but they obviously thought something was
possible or they would not have asked.

Mark 9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out,
and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

In that verse we see a man who realizes that He both has faith and has not faith within himself.

I do not think we can assume that - if they did not believe - that Jesus would become unable to heal them.

If it was in fact the faith of the receiver that activates healing then
they are really healing themselves through faith found in their flesh.

Saving faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit - it is not an act of the will of man.

Think also about those whom Christ healed who did not even realize who He or the apostles were - here is an example:

Acts 3:2 And a certain man lame from his mother’s womb was carried,
whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is
called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none;
but such as I have give I thee:
In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

This man was expecting nothing more than hopefully a few coins
Peter did not ask that fellow if he wanted to be healed or
if he had any faith - Peter merely used the POWER of GOD
and healed the man.

Look what Peter says about the healing:

12 ¶ And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people,
Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this?
or why look ye so earnestly on us,
as though by our own power or holiness
we had made this man to walk?
It was not Peter's faith - Peter after denying Christ KNEW that his faith
was not going to be coming of or from himself.

Peter was displaying the GIFTS that God had granted for that
time as a witness to the FACT that Peter was ORDAINED of God to preach.

Peter was a fisherman - no doctorate of divinity - not ordained in any church !!!

16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong,
whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him (Jesus) hath
given him (the lame one) this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

The lame man did not know who Peter even was - he looked when
Peter told him to look because he thought he would get a coin.

Now it is TRUE that many verse state "your faith has made you whole"
but simply because it is called "their faith" does not negate
the truth about where that faith was coming from.

In John Jesus talks about being "born again" the King James bible
put in the margin "born from above" as an accurate translation.

Look at this account as well:
John 5:5 And a certain man was there,
which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.
6 When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time
in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
7 The impotent man answered him,
Sir, I have no man,
when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool:
but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.
8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
9 And immediately the man was made whole,
and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.

In that record we see the lamb man address Jesus as "Sir"
- he had no idea who Jesus was -
how could that man have had any faith in Christ if he did not
even know who Christ was? When Jesus asked if he would be whole
the man was still hoping to be healed of an angel in the water.

12 Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee,
Take up thy bed, and walk?
13 And he that was healed wist not who it was:
for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.

The man still did not know who Jesus was even after
being healed by Him.

Let me share a little story with you.

My sister had a daughter that was just turning 2 years old
when she caught menigitis (sp?) anyway someone came to the hospital
and told her that *IF* her daughter died it would be because my sister
failed to have enough faith - or in other words - it would be
my sisters fault.

That is a cruel and evil message if I ever heard one but let's
just think for a moment.

If the dead were raised by Christ and the apostles and others
then could we not then say that the only reason anyone dies
is because of a lack of faith on the part of either that person
or others that could have healed them.

Just think - if all it takes is faith on our parts - then
death itself in the flesh should have been overcome by the apostles.

No one should have ever died or been sick again :-)

The apostles also had the power to strike men dead:

Acts 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

I wrote you this message because I wanted to try and cause
you to see that faith - is first a gift - and that it is not
a lack of that gift that is the problem today.

I will write to you again very soon about just
'how the gifts of the spirit' actually worked when they
were working.
This message however is already getting a little long and I do
not want to scare you off with many words - something many
have complained about concerning my posts.

Brian



To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (35837)11/2/2003 8:16:05 PM
From: Berry Picker  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 39621
 
What is love?

Luke 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

It is a common thing for men to accuse others of being ‘unloving’ yet when they are asked what love is they have no clear definition. While you may not agree with all I say, I hope the following will help in some way.

Christ commanded that “those who hear’ should “Love” even their enemies.

What does that mean? Does it mean to have a heart felt admiration with warm and fuzzy feelings for them?

If that were true – how could they be called our enemies?

Are not our enemies those who disobey and hate the dominion of Our Lord and treat us despitefully?

John said this:

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.
If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Did John mean just loving the ‘things’ of this world or does he also refer to the people of this world.

Jesus said these things:

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

“The world” is not things – things do not hate or have evil works
John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world,
but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

When Jesus plainly stated to the Father that He prayed not for the world – he did not mean ‘things’ of the world but people. No one ‘prays for things’.

Would Jesus command us to “Love” our enemies as well as to “pray for those who persecute us” if He himself had no intention of doing so? Why then can Jesus say – I pray not for those in the world but for those only whom the Father had given Him?

Christ was either being a hypocrite or He is speaking about different ‘kinds’ of prayer just as there are different ‘kinds’ of love. The prayer found in John 17 concerns salvation – while praying ‘for’ those who persecute you may not.
Please notice something about this “love” that Christ told us to have for our enemies:

28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. {Bless is to wish well toward}
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. {not resisting the evil ones}
30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. {not resenting physical theft and loss}
31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. {treating all men with equity}
32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. {treating all men with equity}
33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. {treating all men with equity}

Above all – these INSTRUCTIONS concerning love all involve ACTIONS – not feelings of admiration, respect, or honor etc. Biblical love is not about feeling at all in this respect – if we are to actually have emotional love toward those who are in the world then we, as John said, have not the love of the Father within us.

Do we then treat those in the world differently than those who are brothers? – Yes.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers:
for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?
and what communion hath light with darkness?

Galatians 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men,
especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Doing good towards – is an ACTION word not a touchy/feely EMOTIONAL experience.

In fact, the bible teaches that we may HATE those who hate God and yet ACT in love toward them.

Psalms 139:21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee?
and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

Ask yourself this very basic question –
Does God Love His Enemies?

How then does it fit that God hates and is angry with the wicked every day?

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Psalms 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

I tell you God is ‘loving’ toward the wicked – but does not love them. Christ would not even pray for them.

Actions verses Affections – there is no contradiction in what I have just said – or there would be a contradiction within scripture itself.

Love is treating men according to the Law

Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Just because someone is your enemies and a wicked person we must still continue to treat them as God has commanded:

Do not steal from them – Do not commit adultery with their wife – do not lie about their character or actions – do not kill them – etc.

That is LOVE – you may still hate them as your enemy and the enemies of God – but you do not avenge yourself and you do not attempt to put upon them God’s curse. You bless them and go on trusting that the God of this universe will judge all men in equity and that the wicked will not prosper in the end.

Jesus answered this question:

Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

Jesus was asked which was the greatest or most important commandment of all – interestingly enough Christ gave to them TWO not one and structured it into a lesson that answers the very question I hope this post answers:

WHAT IS LOVE?

Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

However look at Christ said about these two commandments:

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

This then is structured like this:

1. THOU SHALT LOVE GOD
i. Thou shalt have no other gods before me
a.
b. etc etc
ii. Thou shalt make no graven images
a.
b. etc etc

iii. Thou shalt not take the Lord’s name vainly
a.
b. etc etc

iiii. Remember the Sabbath
a.
b. etc etc

2. THOU SHALT LOVE MAN (neighbour)
v. Honor your parents
a. Take care of them financially when old.
b. Pray for their salvation – do not curse them.
c. etc etc etc
vi. Thou shalt not kill
a. hoping someone dies soon
b. etc etc

You should be getting the idea. The Two commandments break the Ten commandments into 2 basic groups and under those Ten commandments can all sins be listed.

LOVE IS KEEPING GOD'S COMMANDMENTS even toward those you hate.

This following verse is often used to attempt to teach that LOVE replaces the Law – that is foolish

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Working no ill mean to not steal from to not slander etc. Love cannot ‘replace’ law of Love itself has no definition.

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Paul is showing in scripture exactly what I have just said. If any man disagree with what I have said then must they also disagree with Paul and fight against God and His word.

It is not a difficult concept to Love those whom you hate if you are not attempting to adjust a righteous anger and hatred toward them – in fact to attempt to love the world is a violation of righteousness and love toward God.

Biblical Love is treating others righteously – it is not approving of them.

In Greek there are 5 different words translated love in English.

Here is what Eatons commentary says of love in Cor 13:

In #1Co 13:1ff. the apostle sets forth the excellency of love, as the word "charity" there is rendered in the Revised Version. Charity better captures the biblical idea of love, for charity is love in action for the glory of God not a mere warm mushy feeling as we use the word today.

It has been my experience that many ‘christians’ that say they have love are very soon turned from it when things go astray. Try sleeping with a man’s wife and see how long he has good ‘emotions’ toward you – he may seek your life.
If you sleep with his wife you deserve his hatred but he is commanded not to kill you. That grace should not be taken lightly – but to expect him to continue to ‘like you’ or what a nice ‘christian hug’ next Sunday is foolishness of the highest order.

I hope that this help you the next time someone asks’ what is love.

Agapao = godly and righteous love (this we are commanded to have toward all men even our enemies)
Phileo = friendship and brotherly love (this we have toward our friends and brothers in Christ)
Eros = this we have towards our wife alone (hopefully) it is sexual attraction.
It is interesting in John 21:15 that Jesus asked Peter if he ‘loved him’ (Agape) - while Peter answered back that he ‘loved him’ (Phileo) It was at the third time that Jesus asked Peter this question that Jesus used the word Phileo. All of this is lost in English – men simply teach that Jesus asked three times because Peter denied him three times – that is a sad loss in my mind of what is actually being said and transposing between Peter and the Lord.

This is why there is no contradiction in what I said at the start:

You are commanded to LOVE (agape) the enemies of God but you are also commanded NOT TO LOVE (Phileo) the enemies of God.

Love the world this way but never that way.

1 John 2:15 as opposed to Luke 6:27

2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Pretty simple once you see it isn't it :-)

Brian - next time I will tell you about the miracles.