One Actor I liked.What he has to say in an interview, amazing stuff, what actors have to do.Read bold.Interesting.
William Smith: Tougher Than Leather
by Louis Paul
Big Bill Smith is now a shadow of his former self. The self-effacing, larger-than-life actor now seems like a more relaxed, almost wistful presence that one finds hard to believe when faced with his legendary nearly 100 movie film career. The throaty, full-voiced shout that made men wince is now reduced to a barely audible rasp, ruined by years of ravage powered by too many smokes and too much whiskey.
When I sat down with Bill Smith twice in a period of a year to interview him, he always seemed gracious, alert and keen to entertain with his wonderful stories, and boy, can this man tell stories. From his biker days, to more tough guy roles, and into the new millennium, William Smith can still rattle one's nerves with his presence. Genre fans will always remember the tough as nails roles in films such as RUN, ANGEL, RUN, ANGELS DIE HARD, THE LOSERS and C.C. AND COMPANY. Who can forget Smith as one of the two pugilists (alongside Rod Taylor) in the brutal real fight filmed for DARKER THAN AMBER, or his turn as the revenging son of a vampire in GRAVE OF THE VAMPIRE, or his appearance in a number of blaxploitation classics (BOSS NIGGER, BLACK SAMSON and HAMMER).
When Bill Smith got older, he kept on pushing the rugged charismatic heavy that got him roles with appearances in CONAN THE BARBARIAN, SEVEN, RED DAWN, and many more. Smith's countless roles on television also included the tele series The ASPHALT JUNGLE in 1961, LAREDO, and HAWAII FIVE-O (the last season in 1979). His most famous small screen appearance was as the lizardly 'Falconetti', the villain hated by hordes of nighttime soap opera fans in the critically acclaimed mini-series RICH MAN, POOR MAN in 1976. Nowadays, William Smith still makes a number of movies a year. Most of them, extremely low budget productions which can barely pay the one-time star his now reduced salary, but he does enough of these films that he can keep himself in the life to which he has become accustomed. Despite what you may think about the man, Big Bill Smith is a charming, easy-going and very friendly fellow, and a great interview subject who has left a legacy of film appearances to be remembered by…this man is tougher than leather.
Louis Paul: Is there someone that you always wanted to work with, and for one reason or another, never got the chance because of a variety of circumstances?
William Smith: I always wanted to work with Henry Fonda. I started working as an extra in 1938, and I got a little brown envelope with eleven dimes in it, so that's how I started. But, Henry Fonda was one of my favorite actors of all time, I would have loved to work with him. I got to work with Yul Brynner, I got to work with Rod Taylor, I got to work with a whole bunch of good people. The only guy I never got along with was Jack Lord.
LP: Why?
WS: He was not a nice man. As a matter of fact, they had done eleven years of "Hawaii Five-O," and I had done the twelfth year because James MacArthur quit because Jack Lord had never given him a dressing room, he made him change his clothes in the prop truck. So, James quit and I went over and did the last year. Jack Lord is the only actors in my fifty years in this business that I couldn't get along with. He was not a nice guy, and the end of each month, he would have a lua, and he would have one room for the Hawaiians who were really Samoans, and another for the white people and he separated us. All of our teamsters were Samoans, and all the Samoans that we had on the set were tough guys man, and I said to a teamster captain, "Why do you put up with this racist crap man?" He said, "I don't want to step on my wallet."
LP: According to your credits, you had started out in movies as a child actor, and had even appeared in THE GHOST OF FRANKENSTEIN. Do you have any remembrances of this film?
WS: Yes I do. As a matter of fact, it was the first time that Lon Chaney Jr. ever played Frankenstein and there were three or four of us kids and we were kicking this ball around, and when they began shooting, the monster came up behind us and roared. It scared the bejeesus out of us. I'll tell you something though, Lon Chaney Jr. was such a sweet guy, he was a nice guy, and I got paid for that part too. So, it turned out to be a pretty good deal.
LP: You were paid very little for this?
WS: I was paid for seventeen hours of work. Let's see, I received a little brown bag with eleven dimes in it.
LP: And that was in 1942?
WS: No, it was in 1938.
LP: Is it true that you taught in schools before resuming your acting career in the ‘50s?
WS: Yes, I did, at UCLA.
LP: What did you teach?
WS: I taught Russian Area Studies.
LP: What were the age ranges of the students?
WS: Some of them were professors, but most of them were males between the ages of seventeen and twenty-two.
LP: HIGH SCHOOL CONFIDENTIAL, what do you remember about that film?
WS: I had one line in that film, and my scene was with Mamie Van Dooren. As a matter of fact I was under contract with MGM and I wasn't supposed to be doing that little part. I had one line with her in a car outside the high school.
LP: Now you appeared in many television shows over the years, possibly too many productions for you to remember, but if you can, could you recall any of your own favorite television roles?
WS: There was one GUNSMOKE that I did, called "The Hostage", and there was a SIMON AND SIMON that I did, that I liked. I'll tell you a story about Gunsmoke, when I first got on the set I was standing there before I was to go to work, and the assistant director talking to Amanda Blake, and he pointed to me and she walked over and she said "Hi, my name is Amanda Blake, and I play Miss Kitty, and I've been on this TV show now for sixteen years and nobody's ever done me right, so you do it right." And, she didn't say done, she used another word, but we won't use that. It starts with an F.
LP: And, you were also a semi-recurring character on Daniel Boone as well. You played a character named 'Amos'?
WS: Right, I did.
LP: You showed up a couple of times over the years...
WS: Well, that was a nice show too. As a matter of fact, the one show that I did that was a really good show that nobody ever saw was a show called THE ASPHALT JUNGLE in 1958. Jack Warden, Arch Johnson and I were in it together, and Vince Edwards was in it too, as a doctor. The series was a television version based on the movie. Anyway, it was during the last show, because it wasn't very successful, it was during the last show and I said to Vince "What are you doing after this?", and he said, "I don't know, I just did this stupid pilot as a doctor", and it was called Ben Casey. At that time we were on Channel 7, and it was a neophyte channel, it was owned by Bing Crosby. Bing Crosby had made the pilot for Ben Casey and they kicked us off the air and put Ben Casey on in our slot, which was a shame.
LP: You also did an episode of BATMAN...
WS: That was a triumph because Zsa Zsa Gabor could never hit her marks. I was playing a guy who was in this massage parlor. I was playing this muscle guy, and I would try to grab her hands so that she would hit her mark, and she would say, "Stop." Finally, the director said "Miss Gabor, would you let William hold your hand so that you can hit your mark?" She said, "If he touches me again, I'm leaving", and she left.
LP: You made eleven biker movies, which one was your favorite?
WS: RUN, ANGEL, RUN, and I had fun on C.C. AND COMPANY, because Joe Namath was great and Ann-Margret was great. RUN, ANGEL, RUN was the first one that I did. I like THE LOSERS a lot too.
LP: Joe Namath was fine to work with?
WS: He was terrific. You know, he was never allowed to ride a motorcycle because he was still playing football. So, every time they put him on a motorcycle they put the camera on a truck, and attached the motorcycle to it.
LP: With all of the biker films that you made, you must have had some dealings with Hell's Angels. Have you had any problems with them?
WS: I didn't have any problems with them, and I'll tell you why. I had tattoos put on my head by a Hell's Angel biker for a film that I did.
LP: A tattoo?
WS: The best place to get a tattoo is on your head. If you don't like it, just grow your hair back. If you want to show it, you shave it. But it took seven hours and I have a rose, a falcon's claw and an evil eye. When you get a tattoo on your head, there's no meat or sinew, it just goes right into your skull. When I finally finished, the man who had done it said, "Man, you are unique. You know one of these days they're going to bury you up on this hill. There's going to be a big rainstorm and it's gonna wash your body down into the river, and You will be the only man down there with a falcon's claw, an evil eye and a rose. You are unique. " I said to myself, and this is the guy who did the tattoo on my head!
LP: Back to the Angels...
WS: When you work with the Angels during the day, they're fine. But, when they go out at night, if you're not an Angel, you shouldn't hang out with them. I knew that. But, two or three actors who ignored this, really got hurt badly because they tried to party with them. Once they get a little drunk, or doped up or whatever they do, if you're not a real Angel, then you're an enemy, and they'll hurt you. But, I did four or five movies with them and I never had any problems with them on the set, and they liked me because I could really ride a Harley.
LP: DARKER THAN AMBER...
WS: Best fight scene that I've ever done.
LP: Now, Rod Taylor really hit you during that scene...
WS: He broke three of my ribs in the closet.
LP: Didn't the director Bob Clouse try to stop the fight?
WS: No, Rod Taylor broke three of my ribs, and I broke his nose. I never let him know it but it hurt like hell. Rod's a tough guy. It's the best fight scene I ever worked on. Oh, its amazing...its one of the best fight scenes ever recorded on film. We jumped up on top of Ahna Capri in bed, who I just killed and I didn't mean to but I had to bust his nose, because my ribs hurt so much. That was the most fun I had in the whole movie. Rod and I did THE DEADLY TRACKERS, and on the set he had some problems with Richard Harris. Richard Harris didn't like my name so he called me dobieo. He said "You are dobieo.." The two of them got into it a couple of times. Rod Taylor's a very tough guy, and Richard Harris when he has a few drinks wants to fight and Rod Taylor beat him up so bad one night that they couldn't shoot for four days. I finished my bit, I had about seven or eight minutes at the beginning of the film, I played a guy called ‘Schoolboy’. I only worked on the movie for nine days. The producers paid me to stay on the set for three weeks after my scenes were done to keep them both from beating the hell out of each other. But, I found out the first night I went out with them that they would start singing national folk songs. Richard Harris would start singing "When Roddie McCarthy starts marching down"... (an Irish tune), and Rod would start singing "Waltzing Matilda", and they would get mad at each other, so I said you guys are embarrassing your countries because you can't sing, you can't carry a tune, you don't even know the words man. But they would sing these songs, and when they'd sing songs, they wouldn't fight. It was when they'd sing these songs that they would get into fights because of national pride or whatever. That's all I ever did for three weeks. It's the gospel truth.
LP: You were really pumped up in DARKER THAN AMBER...
WS: I had 18" arms. I'll tell you something. In the town where we shot, if he saw somebody giving us a bad time, Rod Taylor would walk right up to somebody and say "You'll leave Mr. Smith alone, or I'm gonna fuckin' dust you" That was a real compliment.
LP: The Black exploitation movie HAMMER, how did you get that part?
WS: Well, my agent got me the part.
LP: Because of the 'tough guy' image?
WS: Yes.
LP: Did you get along well with Fred Williamson?
WS: Oh yes. I'll tell you, when we shot my first scene, Fred comes up to me and says "They call me The Hammer"...I couldn't stop cracking up. It was the way that he said it. Then, I did BOSS NIGGER, and SWEET JESUS PREACHER MAN.
LP: Now, GRAVE OF THE VAMPIRE, no matter how many films that you have done, a lot of people also remember you for this film. Its such an unusual movie...
WS: It was made in eleven days for twenty-five thousand dollars. It was an interesting part. Michael Pataki played my father and he raped my mother in a grave. I was born the son of a vampire and I was supposed to drink blood from my mothers' breasts, but I couldn't. It was an interesting part.
LP: Tell me about the scene in the film THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR. There was a fight between your character and Yul Brynner's character...
WS: I dropped down into this chute after I cut his arm off. They had about three hundred trained rats that they dropped on top of me. They were all from the film Willard. But they were very nice guys, they really are, they even walked on my eyes, and didn't hurt my eyes. The character that I played had a red beard and a mustache and they put some Karo Syrup and peanut butter on my face. This little rat came down and started eating the stuff, and while we were shooting my mouth was wide open. They were photographing it at about eighty frames, in slow motion. This one rat let one loose right into my mouth, and you can see it going into my mouth. When I saw the rushes I couldn't believe it. You saw it drop very slowly down into my throat.
LP: When you got the part in the television show HAWAII FIVE-O towards the end of its run, did you think that you finally made it into a major television series and had finally gotten your due?
WS: That was the only show I ever did that I had a terrible time working on. I did the last year because I came in and replaced James McArthur. Jack Lord always made him change his clothes in the prop room, so James quit. In the series Jack Lord always used to say "Book 'em Dano" , when I came on to the show it became "Book 'em Kimo", because my character was named Kimo. It was a beautiful, beautiful place to be, in Hawaii, but it was not a great experience for me to be on that set.
LP: FAST COMPANY was a David Cronenberg film, and one of the few movies that he did that was not horror-oriented...
WS: That's right. That was a nice movie, it was very cold in Canada. John Saxon was in it. Around that time I also did a film in Canada called BLOOD AND GUTS (1978) it was about professional wrestling. There are more professional wrestlers in Canada than in any other place in the world.
LP: Clint Eastwood?
WS: One of the most professional guys I ever worked with. The fight that we did in ANY WHICH WAY YOU CAN is the longest two man fight ever done without doubles. We shot it in Jackson, Wyoming which is eight thousand feet and I was smoking so hard, and we shot it in a day and a quarter. Clint really knows how to run a company and he treats everybody really well.
LP: What can you tell me about CONAN THE BARBARIAN?
WS: I was on that set for thirteen weeks, and I was only on screen for seven minutes. I beat Arnold arm wrestling and I never worked for him again. The first day he came over here he spoke very little English, and I speak German and he speaks Austrian, and he came over with a guy from the gym he was at and I beat him at arm wrestling, but as he walked out my front door, he turned around and said (in German) "I will be a movie star" and he is.
LP: I've heard that you speak several languages...
WS: Yes, I speak Russian, German, French and a little bit of English.
LP: Is it true that you had some sort of specialized military training, and even
instructed students in the Russian language?
WS: That is correct. I actually worked for the NSA as a Russian interrogator and a Russian Intercept Operator.
LP: Getting back to Conan...
WS: It took thirteen weeks to shoot that movie and the one thing about Schwarzenegger I will never forget is that nobody could double him because of the shape he was in. He did all his own stunts. He worked twelve hours a day and then he walked two miles, and then he'd work out for two hours. In Conan, I just had one speech, to the baby Conan, and John Milius kept saying to me "I want something about steel and fire and strength." Now I was on the set for thirteen weeks and I was on the screen for only seven minutes, and he came to me one day and he said "We're gonna' shoot that monologue of yours now" and I said "What monologue?" and he said "What I've been telling you about..." So, the monologue that I did in Conan was off the top of my head ". Not man, not woman, not beast can you trust. This can you trust."... the sword. I did the same thing in RED DAWN. I wrote the whole Russian speech in that.
LP: Tell me about that...
WS: John Milius said "Bill, I want you to tell why the Russians are having a hard time getting ahead with their invasion of the United States." So, I did this whole long thing (which William Smith then relates in Russian). We had four cameras on, and it was like a four page monologue and we printed it and that evening I said to John, I said to John "There's one thing I have to say to you, and I hope you don't get upset, but the reason that the Russians are really invading here is because of the film business, because the bullshit directors are gay, and they don't deal with it well." Milius said "Did you say that?" I said "Yes, John." I told him the next morning that I didn't say that John, because he was going to shoot the whole thing again.
LP: Did you really say it?
WS: Yes, I did.
LP: What do you recall about RUMBLEFISH?
WS: That was another big job. I think I was on screen for about twelve minutes and I was down in Tulsa, Oklahoma for thirteen weeks. I keep getting these kind of jobs like that. I'd like to have more lines but as long as they pay you, who cares. On this film, Mickey Roarke tried to throw me off a bridge but I rammed him up against a cement wall and got his attention and so, he didn't try to throw me off anything else. But I must admit about Mickey, and I was very proud of this, the last scene that we had and if you remember, he's looking at the fish, in the tank. He wasn't getting it right and Francis Coppola was not happy with what he was doing. I just took Mickey aside and I said you don't care about anything but these fish when you go around the tank. Just look at them. Don't care about Matt Dillon or me, or anybody else in the scene. Just make love to these fish, to the rumblefish, and he did and Francis Coppola said "That's a print." Coppola never came on the set. He had a motor home that he called the silver fish. But, that made me feel really good and Mickey grabbed me and hugged me said he appreciated what I had done for him. I've never seen him again, thank god.
LP: Who was the best director that you ever worked with?
WS: Bob Clouse. I also liked Leo Penn, and Robert Aldrich was terrific too.
LP: Of all of your film appearances in the last few years, and you seem to be still working quite often, are there any roles that stand out in your memory?
WS: I like MEAN SEASON a lot...
LP: And you did a NASH BRIDGES episode recently?
WS: Yes. I play a Russian gangster named Dimitri Zarkov.
LP: Did you get to speak in Russian for the part?
WS: Yes, I did.
LP: With your written poems, do you sometime plan to leave acting and become a full- time writer?
WS: No, I just want to keep on acting and writing poems.
LP: Do you ever entertain thoughts on writing your autobiography?
WS: Absolutely not. I don't think anybody would be interested.
LP: What would you like your epitaph to read when your name is listed in a book detailing the great character actors?
WS: Keep your legs crossed, and your mouth shut!
Author's note: At this point in the interview, William Smith asked me if he could read me two of his poems which I found to be evocative of early American Indian visuals of the American Southwest and of fields, and loneliness and love lost. These poems revealed a side of the man that I had never known before, and few people who see him in these violent roles realize him capable of.
LP: I never knew this before, but I never realized that you were a man with a very gentle soul. I believe that a lot of people may not realize that. Also, your poetry is very good. I think people see the image, but they don't see the real you.
WS: Why thank you. I really appreciate that.
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William Smith Filmography
The Changing World (1942), The Ghost of Frankenstein (1942), The Song of Bernadette (1942), Going My Way (1944), A Tree Grows in Brooklyn (1945), I Wonder Who's Kissing Her Now (1947), The Boy with the Green Hair (1948), High School Confidential (Mondo Bizarro: Mamie Van Dooren, 1958), Never So Few (1959), The Mating Game (1959), Girls Town (Mondo Bizarro: Mamie Van Dooren, 1959), Ask Any Girl (1959), The Lawbreakers (1960), Atlantis, The Lost Continent (1961), Go Naked in the World (1961), Mail Order Bride (1964), Texas Rangers and Us (1968), The Banditos (1968), Three Guns for Texas (1968), Run, Angel, Run (1969), The Man Hunter (1969), Backtrack (1969), The Losers (Biker Films, 1970), Crowhaven Farm (ABC television movie of the week, 1970), C.C. And Company (Biker Films, 1970), Angels Die Hard (Biker Films, 1970), Darker Than Amber (1970), Summertree (1971), Runaway, Runaway (1971), Chrome and Hot Leather (Biker Films, 1971), The Thing with Two Heads (Blaxploitation Horror, 1972), Piranha, Piranha (1972), Hammer (1972), Grave of the Vampire (70s Horror, 1972), Columbo: The Greenhouse Jungle (NBC television movie, 1972), A Taste of Hell (Philippines Exploitation, 1973), Sweet Jesus Preacher Man (1973), The Last American Hero (1973), Invasion of the Bee Girls (70s Horror, 1973), Gentle Savage (70s Exploitation, 1973), The Fuzz Brothers (1973), The Deadly Trackers (Cult Directors: Sam Fuller [script only], 1973), Policewoman (1974), Black Samson (Blaxploitation, 1974), Win, Place or Steal (aka Another Day at the Races; 70s Exploitation, 1974), Sex Symbol (70s Exploitation, 1974), The Ultimate Warrior (Fantasy & Science Fiction, 1975), Swinging Barmaids (1975), Dr. Minx (1975), Death Among Friends (American television movie, 1975), Boss Nigger (Blaxploitation: Fred Williamson, 1975), Scorchy (70s Exploitation, 1976), Hollywood Man (1976), Rich Man, Poor Man (US TV miniseries, 1976), Rich Man, Poor Man - Book II (US TV miniseries, 1976), Twilight's Last Gleaming (1977), Blackjack (1978), Blood and Guts (1978), Seven (70s Exploitation: Andy Sidaris, 1979), The Rebels (US TV miniseries, 1979), Lion In the Streets (1979), Fast Company (Cult Directors: David Cronenberg, 1979), The Frisco Kid (1979), Wo To Wo Fat (1980), Any Which Way You Can (1980), The Cop Killers (1981), Conan the Barbarian (Fantasy & Science Fiction, 1981), Tales of the Apple Dumpling Gang (US TV movie1982), Rumble Fish (Cult Directors: Francis Ford Coppola, 1983), The Outsiders (Cult Directors: Francis Ford Coppola, 1983), The Jerk Too (Television sequel to Steve Martin film The Jerk, 1984), Red Dawn(1984), When Nature Calls (Troma, 1985), Fever Pitch (1985), Empire of Ash II (1985), Empire of Ash III (1985), The Mean Season (1985), Phantom Empire (80s Schlock: Fred Olen Ray, 1986), Eye of the Tiger (1986), Moon in Scorpio (1987), Hell on the Battleground (1987), Hell Comes to Frogtown (80s Schlock, 1987), Commando Squad (80s Schlock: Fred Olen Ray, 1987), Red Nights (1987), Platoon Leader (1988), Memorial Valley Massacre (1988), The Kill Machine (1988), The Emperor of the Bronx (1988), Bulletproof (1988), B.O.R.N. (Modern Horror, 1988), Maniac Cop (Horror Directors: William Lustig, 1988), Spirit of the Eagle (1989), Slow Burn (1989), The Last Battle (1989), L.A. Vice (1989), Jungle Assault (1989), Guerrero del Este de Los Angeles (1989), Evil Altar (Modern Horror, 1989), East L.A. Warriors (1989), Action USA (1989), Instant Karma (1990), Highway Warrior (1990), Forgotten Heroes (1990), Chance (1990), Cartel (1990), Terror in Beverly Hills (1991), The Rollerblade Seven (80s Schlock, 1991), Merchant of Evil (1991), The Last Riders (1991), The Last of the Warriors (1991), Kiss and Be Killed (1991), The Final Sanction (1991), Cybernator (1991), The Third Rail (1992), Shadow of the Dragon (1992), Maniac Warriors (1992), Legend of the Rollerblade 7 (1992), The Legend of Skull Canyon (1992), American Me (1992), Road to Revenge (1993), The Return of the Rollerblade 7 (80s Schlock, 1993), Hard Time Romance (1993), Manosaurus (1994), Deadly Currency (1994), Maverick (1994), Taken Alive (1994), Raw Energy (1995), Jude Strange (1995), Big Sister 2000 (1995), Uncle Sam (Horror Directors: William Lustig, 1996), Neon Signs (1996), The Shooter (1997), Rock and Roll Cops (1997), Interview with a Zombie (1997), Ground Zero (1997), Double Cross (1997), No Rest for the Wicked (1998), Broken Vessels (1998), Blood of His Own (1998).
...and Mr. Smith has also appeared in dozens of American television programs including the following selected credits: Death Valley Days (1952), Lassie (1954), Gunsmoke (1955), Combat (1962), The Virginian (1962), Daniel Boone (1964), Batman (1966), Mission: Impossible (1966), The Guns of Will Sonnett (1967), Julia (1968), The Mod Squad (1968), Dan August (1970), Longstreet (1970), Kung Fu (1972), Planet of the Apes (1974), Kolchak: The Night Stalker (1974), The Six Million Dollar Man (1974), CHIPS (1977), Buck Rogers in the 23rd Century (1979), The Fall Guy (1981), Simon and Simon (1981), Matt Houston (1982), The A-Team (1983), Emerald Point N.A.S. (1983), Murder She Wrote (1984), Airwolf (1984), Hunter (1984), Walker, Texas Ranger (1993) and Nash Bridges (1999). |
