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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (119389)	11/13/2003 10:33:48 AM
From: skinowski	Respond to of 281500

I could develop a very nice synthetic religion I can imagine that... "God is One, and CB is His Prophetess!"... Hey, why not... Go for it... -G.

To: Ilaine who wrote (119389)	11/13/2003 2:18:16 PM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (6) \| Respond to of 281500

Islam has other problems... Oh I think you are being too specific in your selection. Bible allows selling your daughter into slavery. And stoning adulterers is neither unique to nor invented by Islam. Much of what you complain about Islam can be answered by two facts: Firstly they are not part of "Islam" as a doctrine but are Arab traditions. For example there is nothing explicit in Islam that advocates women should be covered up. The rest can be answered by pointing out that Islam is an encompassing system. You cannot pick and choose the parts as you please. For example a true Islamic regime has to provide for the welfare of its people so that no one will have to steal out of poverty. Furthermore the government has to serve as the final guarantor of Islamic obligations. For example if according to Islamic law you win a civil suite against me and I don't have enough money to pay you, then the government has to foot the bill. So you will not have to resort to illegal measures for to cover your losses. Since it is unlikely that any government can meet its Islamic obligations any time soon, one could argue the government cannot implement the Islamic punishments either. Stoning adulterers and cutting the hands off of thieves is not acceptable. It is not acceptable to you and me, but it is arrogant to demand others live their lives to our liking. BTW, the proper rule is that there needs to be 4 witnesses who beyond doubt can establish the charge of adultery. Simply slipping into a hotel with someone does not qualify the punishment. This makes it very hard to apply the stoning law, don't you think? There is a balance between the severity of punishment and the burden of proof. Sadly this burden of proof (like many other things) is not met in Islamic regimes. On the broader issue of limiting women, there are some limitations on women which is why I will never approve of a fully Islamic government. But those limitations are not the ones that make the headlines. They are hidden in the legal code. The ones you hear about like that Nigerian girl a while back, are explicitly against Islam. On the other hand there are plenty of pluses and calls for equality of ALL Muslims. For example, there is plenty of explicit sayings on why every Muslim (male and female) should be well educated. So while you have people like Saudi and Taliban who effectively limit women to house arrest, you also have people like Khomeini in Iran who decreed half of all university students should be women. Funny enough I never hear about this part of the Islamic Republic of Iran when women's issues are discussed. The glory that was medieval Islam was that they preserved and spread inventions and developments from the Far East and ancient Greece and Egypt that would otherwise have been lost. You are not giving them enough credit. Yes there was that, just as some claim America's technological success came from snatching up the German and anti-communist scientists after WWII. But both cases are shortsighted. The glory of Islamic societies was also because Islam actively promoted education. More importantly Islam broke most of the class barriers (except in the political chain). This was a great boon for progress of science. Imagine not being born into your job and being able to pursue your talents. Thirdly, every Muslim is obligated to visit Mecca at a certain time if they can. This meant that people from all over the Islamic empire had an annual symposium through which cross pollination of ideas and commercial needs took place. All of this led to a lot of advancement in the Islamic world which in turn brought advancement to the entire mankind. To claim that "they did not actually have such a glorious past" is to deny their inventions and scientific discoveries for a 1000 years which ranged from creation of sulfuric acid to the binomial expansion. Islamic societies have deteriorated for the same reasons that Europe sank into the dark ages. They stopped freedom and equality and got tangled more with tradition than wisdom of those traditions.