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To: zonder who wrote (267527)	11/17/2003 12:45:23 PM
From: Rarebird	Respond to of 436258

<That majority could find quite a few other names for this situation in which you find yourself than "free".> Coulda, shoulda, woulda....lol. The treasury of popular opinion abounds with advice that requires subjugation and conformism. Here is a very short list: 1)Obey the powers-that-be. 2)Resistence is disruptive. 3)Stay in your own station. 4)Any effort to change things is futile. 5)The past determines the way how things should go. 6)There must be an authority to keep order (Hobbes). I have a much different opinion of man and humanity: I stress human creativity and human freedom. Man is what he makes of himself both individually and generically. Man has no essential nature; what he has is history. History in the making which is self-making. <The decision may not have been a difficult one for you, but try to understand that some people actually CARE for their country> When you say that "some people actually care for their country" are you posing this care as a new essence of man? And at what point does ethics or morality come into play if a nation becomes tyrannical? It is my own individual identity that I create by formulating my life-plan based on my actions and choices, a man is nothing else than a series of undertakings that spring from his fundamental choices. "Care for a country" and/or countries is just one of those fundamental choices.

To: zonder who wrote (267527)	11/17/2003 5:41:26 PM
From: Mark Adams	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

actually CARE for their country Yes. Then again, sometimes you are the windshield, sometimes the bug. <g> other names for this situation in which you find yourself than "free" Without staking a position in the dialog which led to this observation, I'd like to say I'm fascinated with the idea that: a) Freedom may be an illusion, much like security b) The query "When is Freedom a Prison?" I ask google the latter on occasion, and usually end up with quite a bit of relgion/prison stuff. Understanding that the body can be imprisoned while the mind/soul wanders free, I find google's responsive unsatisfying. IMO, Freedom becomes a Prison when: The desire to be free precludes having those things which make life worth living. I suspect someone somewhere has written a poem that elaborates on the hidden corners & crevices found within the unmitigated quest for freedom. Uhh, back to your regular programming....