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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (178117)	11/17/2003 7:31:12 PM
From: tejek	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1575489

Ted, thanks for the history lesson, but it only validates what I said, that the extremists have affixed in their minds the notion that the Western "crusaders" are responsible for all of their troubles. And I used the word "crusaders" because that's the label the extremists use to whip up their supporters into a religious frenzy. You're not listening. If you and other Americans don't take the time to understand the history, then our leaders can pull shit like Bush and past leaders have done. We need to step out of the region as much as possible asap. We need to wean ourselves of our dependence on oil. We need to honor what good guys there are and condemn the bad guys. The only practical way to ween ourselves off of oil is to develop a better source of energy. In the meantime, implement strong conservation measures. All the increased taxes on gas should be going to alternative energy sources. We should be promoting the sale of Toyota's Prius......a hybrid that gets over 50 miles to the gallon when its using gas at all. There are interim steps we need to take before we get to fuel self sufficiency. Otherwise, we'll severely strain our own economy, and the Arab nations will simply sell their oil to those nations who haven't. We are a smart country. If we plan this well, the inconvenience will be relatively minor. Especially China. Want to see their influence in the Middle East increase? China is too busy becoming the next great capitalist giant. As for honoring the good guys and condemning the bad guys, that's all good and noble, but it would still amount to Western meddling in Middle Eastern affairs. There always going to be someone who gets the shaft, and they're likely to resort to whatever means necessary to achieve their goals. If we want to make the world a better place, then we best help the good guys as much as possible. No one has to get the shaft. If the good guys get control, economic conditions will improve and the bad guys won't have an audience. In their half ass way, that's what the neocons were trying to do in Iraq. However, they wanted to do it fast and easy. Good things take time...........lots of time. And you best not do it with bombs. What will we do then? Appease the bad guys? We've tried that for years and it didn't work. Get out of the Middle East? We'll be crippling ourselves, and other nations will be more than happy to rise in power and see America's power fall. Develop cold fusion? Gee, that would be nice, wouldn't it? Defend against the bad guys and then ignore them. Its too late to rehabilitate them. The OBLs will go on until they have no more constituency. As for America's greatness, that's in jeopardy if we continue on the current path. That's a no brainer. This attack on Iraq and how the American public went along with it when many of them knew full well that Bush was BSing us.......its bad.......its how people are when empires are in decline. ted

To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (178117)	11/17/2003 7:59:02 PM
From: Road Walker	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1575489

Ten, re: it only validates what I said, that the extremists have affixed in their minds the notion that the Western "crusaders" are responsible for all of their troubles. You call them "extremists", and indeed I agree they are. But try a little experiment in empathy, put yourself in their shoes. Not to accept what they have done, but to better understand why they've done it. You are an Arab and fundamental Muslim (not much different, from a fundamental perspective than a Baptist or orthodox Jew) living in Saudi Arabia. You are ruled by a corrupt and autocratic monarchy, which has strong political ties to the US, which you and your mosque see as morally corrupt. The infidels have military bases in your country, which you consider a holy land. They support your enemy in Israel with guns, money and politics, against your people. They attack, defeat, and occupy your Arab neighbor. They overthrow the Taliban. They consume the majority of your national resources at prices set by the corrupt monarchy, while the extended family of the King lives in ultimate luxury. If your were a very proud and patriotic Arab and devout Muslim, how would you react? re: What will we do then? Appease the bad guys? We've tried that for years and it didn't work. If you are talking about the terrorists, then remember we've had only two incidents in the US, both instigated by the same guy. Do you think our current policies are increasing or decreasing out risk? re: Get out of the Middle East? We'll be crippling ourselves, and other nations will be more than happy to rise in power and see America's power fall. Frankly, yes, we start the process of getting out of the Middle East. And we start the process of developing alternate and renewable energy. But it can't happen under this oil man administration that's beholden to oil interests. The current plan to take control of the Middle East, the domino democracy effect, just ain't gonna work. Our enemies are increasing in numbers every day, our policies are breeding them. The "war on terrorism" is like the "war on drugs", you can't fight ghosts. John