To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (501219 ) 12/1/2003 1:29:57 AM From: Lazarus_Long Respond to of 769667 Oh, God, Liz, cut it out. I know you have a severe allergy to fact, but try this:calmis.ca.gov Now that has age group "25-64". But when have you known an employer to keep older engineers in preference to younger? They cost more. Get real. This is much more common:bayarea.com Try this:Research by the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers supports Matloff's claim that veteran coders are being driven out of the field. In a 1998 report, the institute discovered that unemployed members typically require three additional weeks to find a new job for each year of age over 45. archive.salon.com You wanna argue with them? But if you insist on it, I'll hunt data that DOES specifically refute you. And then I'll post my response as a response to every post you make for an entire day. I'm like you claim to be. I'm working. But I worked for a start-up that IPOed in 1997. I worked strictly for stock. A roll of the dice. I won. Working is optional. But I do work. As an engineer. I'm older than your "30-45" bracket, but I know lots of them. I work with them. They are engineers. Those "highly paid engineering positions" you claim are gone. Maybe they are at the two-bit dying fleabag outfit you are at. We have lots of them. 40%, my ***. You can argue with this if you wish: Okay, forget all those economic numbers and forecasts and technical analysis crap. That all means nothing in predicting how the economy is going. Instead, just check out how crowded highway 101 is heading through Silicon Valley at rush hour. At least, that's the idea behind this article that brings up some anecdotal reports that traffic is getting worse - which many people are interpreting to mean that the jobs are coming back, too. They say the traffic feels just like it did when the dot coms started catching on. While there may be something to that (and I've heard others say the same thing), it certainly feels like people are just looking for any sign that things are picking up, and will latch onto anything. It's not quite trying to divining the future from animal entrails, but I wouldn't use it as the most definitive measure of economic life in the Valley. techdirt.com If you work at it, you might get your credibility back to where that percentage of SI readers believe anything you say.