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Politics : GENEVA ACCORD -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: marcos who wrote (60)	12/7/2003 2:39:39 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 190

Your assessment of the violence would be approved of by Hamas. The Jews practice "robbery and murder and imprisonment and general terrorism perpetrated on indigenous". Not only does this rewrite history, it omits Arab violence, usually the protest of first resort for them. Are we to consider it "legitimate armed struggle", the approved Palestinian term? Expressing political gripes by blowing up buses is okay by you? which is readily apparent, consider how much more secure are jews who moved to the Americas for instance, as opposed to those who 'moved' to Palestine ... why - because americanos operate secular states, that's why No, it's because Americans believe in freedom and equality even for Jews, that's why. A secular state in itself guarantees nothing. Was the USSR a religious state? Was Nazi Germany? did the Jews prosper there? Were pre-WWII France or Holland or Poland or Hungary, religious states? The Israelis have done far, far better than the Jews who moved to any of those places. One of the reasons is that they decided to take their fate into their own hands and have self-determination for the Jewish people - the Jews are a people, not just a religion, a point you seem determined to ignore. Since being declared "indigenous" seems to weigh so heavily with you, could you answer my question if Zionism would have been okay just in Jerusalem, which was indigenously Jewish? Or is it your position that no place on earth is indigenously Jewish, and the Jews therefore don't deserve self-determination anywhere? But all this is pointless. Israel exists. Deal with it. The Palestinians will get a state the minute they get a leader who wants one.

To: marcos who wrote (60)	12/8/2003 1:33:56 AM
From: Brumar89	Respond to of 190

.. how much more secure are jews who moved to the Americas for instance, than those who 'moved' to Palestine.. Unfortunately, the Americas closed their doors in the '20's. They didn't reopen till a few decades ago. Ever hear of the Evian conference of 1939? "None is too many" cdn-friends-icej.ca If the America's HAD opened their doors in the '30's, a Jewish state would likely not have come into existence. Doors were still closed after WWII and not just in the America's - Jews who tried to return to their homes in eastern Europe were met with pogroms. 42 holocaust survivors were killed in the worst one in Kielce, Poland. One could argue the UN approved the Jewish state in 1948 because no one wanted the survivors of WWII. Too pessimistic?