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Politics : GENEVA ACCORD -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (88)	12/7/2003 7:51:16 PM
From: Eashoa' M'sheekha	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 190

>>For the Americans, Canadians, Australians, or Turks to want a nation and self-determination, that's their right. For the Jews to want a nation and self-determination, that's a "Whackenstaat". << That's a rather bizzaro argument Nadine. The Americans, Canadians, Australians and other countries are made up of diverse populations of colour,religion, ethnicity and so on. Unless you believe that Jews are not to be included in the human race,how can you make this comparison? I don't agree with marcos on a number of issues,but I think you are way out in RIGHT field on this one. Do you believe that the " Jewish state " is to be exactly that,like the authors of the educational thingy printed, and have NO diversity or ethnicity at all? I don't think that was what was intended in 1948. Do you? KC

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (88)	12/7/2003 10:13:10 PM
From: marcos	Respond to of 190

'The European settlers moved into an uninhabited waste...the land is really owned by no one.... The settler ousts no one from the land. The truth is, the Indians never had any real title to the soil.' .... Theodore (I Lied About San Juan Hill Too) Rooseveldt, in his book 'Winning of the West' - cactus48.com So there is our definitive answer on injuns, i guess eh .... no need to fall back on your secondary position, that there are no injuns, never were no injuns, and anyway they didn't call themselves 'injuns' quite the way we pronounce it .... which is good, because you see, it wouldn't work, you are talking to one .... not that you couldn't try it on us for fun or something, i mean what the hell, Golda Meir did - 'There was no such thing as Palestinians. It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country from them. They did not exist.' Genocide worked pretty well for a long time, it was getting pretty dicey though by the time the turks did the armenians, what was that, early in the great war i think ..... funny how you mention the turks as role models for your Judenstaat, reminds one of somebody else who exclaimed 'who remembers the armenian genocide' .... now who was that anyway, pretty sure he got famous for something The thing is you began the fullscale ethnic cleansing too late .... sensibilities had changed, that's all, call us a fickle species if you will, but that's the way it is .... one savage tribe in Ruanda can slaughter the other still, but they are not educated moneyed europeans of whom we expect better .... you're welcome to keep trying at the project, but i think it's not a very good idea 'For the Jews to want a nation and self-determination, that's a "Whackenstaat". Have I got the definition straight?' When you want this nation built on the lands of another people starting mid-twentieth century, and excluding those people from full franchise within it, based on your perception of their religio-tribal inferiority, then yes you've fulfilled the definition i think .... and that is what is happening, as was the plan, wasn't it, to ignore the 'external factors' - 'The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan; one does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today. But the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concern of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.' ... David ben Gurion, 1936 - cactus48.com

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (88)	12/8/2003 5:05:26 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 190

Re: For the Americans, Canadians, Australians, or Turks to want a nation and self-determination, that's their right. For the Jews to want a nation and self-determination, that's a "Whackenstaat". Have I got the definition straight? Nope... You've got it all wrong: For the Americans, Canadians, Australians, or Turks to want a nation and self-determination, that was their MIGHT. I've already addressed that issue in the following posts: Message 17772283 Message 17335863 As I said the "scale factor" precludes Israel from ever resembling the US case... Besides, while Zionists keep referring conveniently to the American case study to justify Israel, they coyly overlook the French-Algerian precedent... how come? Of course, the French case really is a worst-case scenario for rabid Zionists: the French Pieds-Noirs, just like the Americans, conquered and settled a wilderness inhabited by primitive tribes... only to pack up and go back home 130 years later. Then again, the balance of power between American settlers and Indians is incommensurate with today's one between Arabs and Israelis... You wanna play hardball with them, but what are you gonna do when Pakistan will have nuclear submarines in the Mediterranean? Oh, I see: you'll have India nuke Pakistan, eh? But India has no interest in unleashing a war with Pakistan that's gonna ultimately turn into a civil war (India is the largest Muslim country after Indonesia, mind you) Bottom line, might is right... even for the Jews. Did you ever ask yourself why colonialism has been successful but in the most primitive areas? Australia and the Aborigines... the Americas and their native tribes who wouldn't use the wheel... As for Africa, apart from Zimbabwe's white farmers, the trappings of old-style colonialism are no more. Asia? the last European outposts, Hong Kong and Macao, have been graciously ceded to China in the late 1990s.... Okay, you Zionists want a full-fledged nation where Jews enjoy precedence over non-Jews... That's fine with me but remember... you were offered Patagonia! If it was just a matter of having your own Jewish turf, why didn't you go for uninhabited Patagonia?!? Why did you mess with the Arabs in that overcrowded piece of real estate, the Mideast? Gus