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Politics : Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Compendium of Liberal Fiction -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (2105)	12/9/2003 6:45:47 PM
From: Original Mad Dog	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

LOL You are a piece of work. You made a statement. It was false. I pointed that out. Excuse me for being impolite, but when you lie and I point that out, I see it as a public service. Well let me say again, this is THE WORST EMPLOYMENT I HAVE SEEN IN MY LIFE. Statistics back it up If this is the worst employment you have seen in your life then you are a little over ten years old (though you could learn a thing or two about how to construct an logical and coherent argument from my ten and 11 year old daughters at home). The unemployment rate has been higher than it is currently in 192 out of the past 350 months, nearly 60 percent of the time. (That covers the time from when I first got a job. Before that I'll admit I wasn't paying close attention.) So, basically, if you are 28 years old you are now seeing an unemployment rate that is lower than it has been the majority of your entire life. How is that the worst employment in your life? That makes no sense. It's just hyperbole on your part. weren't you the guy that chased me around on that other thread telling me how WRONG I was about how california corps pay less than they did in taxes in the early 90s? On the California taxes issue I recited the actual amounts paid by California corps over a 50 year period. On a real basis California corporations pay several times more in taxes than they did 50 years ago. There was one time period, ONE, in which the revenue from the California corporate tax had declined slightly. That was 2001. Under every other measure, including the current figures, California corporate tax revenues were up over every measurable time period. That's a fact. You don't like it, but it's a fact. Any Statistics 101 student will tell you that taking one slightly aberrant data point in a 50 year period and transforming it into a broad sweeping generalization is invalid. when we both know those are only indicative of how many people actually bother to file. Half the unemployed engineers I know, some of which are actually civil engineers in Ohio, have exhausted their benefits It's also a fact that the percentage of the labor force that is employed is higher now than during any of the other downturns in the modern era. The BLS "Participation Rate" is currently 66.3 percent (this is the percentage of the adult population that is in the labor force). If half of your unemployed friends have given up looking for work, that's unfortunate, but as a percentage of the adult population the labor force has remained between 65 and 67.5 percent of the adult population in every single month since January 1986. The highest this number ever got in the U.S. was 67.4 percent. In January 1986 it was 64.9 percent. Right now it is 66.3 percent. It is a myth that huge number of discouraged workers have melted out of the workforce. The percentage of adults working is right about where it has been for 20 years. Well heres the problem, in the 82 recession did we just get through spending the entire federal treasury and create the largest deficit ever (from a surplus) in order to create jobs? Nope, the budget was actually ok back then It was ok back then? Well, then, it must be ok now too. In 1982, the government spent 20.7 percent more than it took in as revenue. In 2003, the government spent 16.5 percent more than it took in as revenue. The deficit was a smaller portion of the GDP in 1982 than in 2003. Its disgusting What's disgusting is how you show up on threads, say things that are demonstrably false, and then when they are demonstrated to be false you disparage the people who demonstrate their falsity and run off in a huff, and THEN you go to other threads and repeat the same nonsense when you know it's false. So today we have learned: 1. According to the BLS the U.S. has not lost 3 million jobs in this downturn. 2. The unemployment rate peaked at a lower point in this downturn than in any other in the postwar era. 3. Ohio's unemployment rate is so bad that it is lower than when Clinton ran for reelection. 4. Despite the myths, the percentage of the adult population participating in the labor force is not lower than it has been on average over the past 20 years. You are calling things that you write "obvious, in your face facts". Where I grew up and got my education, in the public schools of the Midwest, a fact was something that is true. By that definition, your statements don't qualify as facts of any description.

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (2105)	12/9/2003 7:51:41 PM
From: Sully-	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

"Lets assume I have been in the workforce for 25 years shall we?" Well, that takes your alleged comment, "the worst unemployment I have seen", back to 1978. Folks here on this thread have debunked that BS several times. Unfortunately, facts have no impact on your inflexible misperception of reality. "As far as Bush's record, this conversation started with me saying this is the worst unemployment I have seen. Lets assume I have been in the workforce for 25 years shall we?" FWIW, I recall you alleging worse than that Lizzie. A quick search found these...... "The fact is there are more bankrupcies and more unemployment than ever and the fact that we can't create wealth like we used to be able to do in the Clinton years even though companies are immensely more profitable and Bush has created another bubble is not something to brush off!" Message 19537258 "My personal view fwiw is that most of the doom and gloom out there comes from the job climate which is terrible, worse than any other time in my life." Message 19356913 How many professionals, age 30-45 (peak income years) do you know? I'm thinking of the people we used to call yuppies, MBAs and the like. My feeling is that the unemployment rate in this group is running about 40%. If they are working, pay is way down from the 90s. This is across all industries... basically, every "desk job". Message 19548698