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Politics : Moderate Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: tsigprofit who wrote (5024)	12/15/2003 11:23:43 PM
From: Raymond Duray	Respond to of 20773

Call a spade a spade, or in this case an ace of spades an ace of spades... And in this deck, a joker: tvnewslies.org

To: tsigprofit who wrote (5024)	12/16/2003 2:50:33 AM
From: Coz	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

<<What irritates me most is not that Saddam is caught - which is great, but the hypocrisy of our administration.>> tsig, I think what makes those of us who opposed this crusade uncomfortable about the capture of the dictator is that this man for the neocons is the posterchild for their reason for the war, but for people opposed to the war, saddam, is the representation of all the lies and the cavalcade of changing reasons given to us by the administration for this war. To them, they see all the reasons as charms on their bracelets each one making their case stronger even if the reason was proven later to be based on lies. For them it still counts. For us each reason proved deceptive was like a piece of fabric ripped from our emporer's new clothes, and at this point, for the middle to left, we see a naked man exhaulting his glory to the cheers of the neocon minions and dupes. Sadly, if I am correct in the assesment, there is little common ground for us all to come together. It is hard for me to see them and anything more than mockish clows spouting the tainted phrases approved for the prolatariat by their their party elites. For them, my phrases are dimissed as the ramblings of a no-nutting gawdless liberal who'd rather raid the treasure that to be productive... (Yes both sides have read Ayn Rand, only we draw different conclusions). And with the passing of time and the changing culture feed to us through the television machine. Both sides have learned what great fun it is to hurl insults at one another to the point now, where only the insult counts. And better yet, the insult doen's need and relevance or basis, like, "hillary is a lesbian slut." To them, that makes her in to a low vile creature whom they would under different circumstances drag to the center of town and stone. To us of course, the reply is "how aburd." And since we know that the hillary/lesbian thing is utter non-sense, it is degrading to answer it. And quite frankly, if she were so inclined, as long as she isn't shove her desire in my face but just living a quiet personal life, it is of absolutely no concern of mine what she does in her personal life as look as she is a focused and effective politician when working for me--for us all. There is such a gulf between the sides right now that I honestly believe just changing the head, will not do the trick and more that cutting off the iraqi head is going to bring violence to and end and bring the iriquis out to through those flowers at our feet. For us americans to defeat the extreemism of thes neocombativecons, it will take an election that changes the executive and the congressional back to more moderate stands. Once this is done, the Supreme Covrt can be brought back to the center of a period of years. That what it will take to begin making our world safe again. As far as bring the both sides together, they are going to have to suck in a little of this freakish controlism, and we are going to have to do two things--build a political platform that is based on progress instead of hating Geo Bush. and secondly, we are going to have to accept some of their ideas like goofy enviromenta plans and rewarding the richest tax payers first and with the biggest breaks. We will need to do these things until our side can push through trial programs which will show the others that there are some different was of acting that can bring about the desired results without having to first engauge in name calling and then shooting. I am weary of this world now, but I do believe it can be changed and that we can find common ground and tolerance once we get past the name calling and bashing of political agendas & plans. It will be hard as hel to start the ball rolling, but I believe it can be done, and once we stop screaming at each other from the tops of our lungs and commence to argue loudly with with one another talking through various speaking points, from this, miraculously, a common ground will begin to develop. And I think we can reach a point where we can both work for our country in the best way we know how, and ACTUALLY be working with each other to achieve this. The saddest part of this all is that if our speaking points are more important to us that finding a common ground. All the great progress of civilization will have already been acomplished and every thing from hear on out is just vilianizing them peoples a right over there who do think right. A world like that is not going to last long. Ciao, --Cozzz

To: tsigprofit who wrote (5024)	12/16/2003 8:49:54 AM
From: Brumar89	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 20773

cleaning up our own mess created in the 1980s under Reagan, and the missteps of Bush Sr. in 1990-1991. OK, the Bush Sr. administration made a big mistake in letting the UN coalition prevent them from getting rid of Saddam in '91. But the Reagan administration didn't create the mess there. During most of the '80's the US was pushing a proposed arms embargo against both Iraq and Iran. The major arms suppliers to Iraq have always been France and Russia. Which is why they have massive debts owed them from Iraq and we don't.