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Politics : Dutch Central Bank Sale Announcement Imminent? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Raymond Duray who wrote (19901)	12/24/2003 7:34:56 AM
From: mcg404	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 81109

Ray, <When Dr. Murano got in front of the camera and said that the brain, spine and other neural tissues of the animal in question went to rendering and the rest of the downer cow into the meat supply, my chin dropped.> Are you sure they had the test results at the time this occurred? I would suspect this information was obtained afterward (if not, then my chin is dropping also). <There is no doubt but this whole crisis could have easily been averted by a sensible regulatory regime that recognized that downer cows are a special problem and need to be completely isolated from the food chain.> Ah, you liberals just want to regulate us to death! (g) Actually, the problem stems from the practice of feeding ground animal parts from infected animals to animals such as cows which are, in case we forgot, ruminants. Wonderfully evolved animals capable of converting that zero input feedstock known as grass into high value protein. Of course that's just a little ancient history since we have cleverly realized we can generate a lot of GNP by moving to a high input mode of production involving production and feeding of grains (and other non-grass feeds). Welcome to the world of industrialized agriculture. (and i won't even begin to talk about the other issues such as nutrient pollution, soil erosion, etc that result from this production method.) Again, another possible example of how an industrialized process isn't better (when you look at all the impacts) but one that is driven by the ability of the process to externalize costs while maximizing private profits. All the while, the mechanism we have at our disposal to provide a balance between the needs of corporations and the needs of the community remains beholden to...the corporations. This situation, imho, is a good example of the futility of regulations - since it is just an after-the-fact band-aid approach to an entire process which has been corrupted. As well as the futility of hoping to use the political process as a method of getting meaningful chance. But we do have the power to effect change as wendell berry explains: The danger now is that those who are concerned will believe that the solution ... can be merely political — that the problems, being large, can be solved by large solutions generated by a few people to whom we will give our proxies to police the economic proxies that we have already given. The danger, in other words, is that people will think they have made a sufficient change if they have altered their "values", or had a "change of heart", and that such a change in passive consumers will cause appropriate changes in the public experts, politicians, and corporate executives to whom they have granted their proxies. The trouble with this is that a proper concern for nature and our use of nature must be practised, not by our proxy-holders, but by ourselves. A change of heart or of values without a practice is only another pointless luxury of a passively consumptive way of life. The [problem] can be solved only if people, individually and in their communities, recover responsibility for their thoughtlessly given proxies. John

To: Raymond Duray who wrote (19901)	12/24/2003 10:25:37 AM
From: philv	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 81109

I have been reading more about this subject. Here is a post arguing the extreme seriousness of BSE, infected meat, the industry, etc. Message 19625808 This is in sharp contrast to officials who are claiming zero risk. The cost to the Canadian beef industry is estimated at about 2 billion dollars. Since my original post, more nations have banned US beef imports, and this may indeed be just the tip of the iceberg. One would not think a single isolated case is possible, but inspection rates are very low. I have heard horror stories about these rendering plants, which accept any carcass in any condition of decomposition. They all go into a giant vat and back out as feed (protein) for chickens, cows, dogs, etc. No doubt the industry is in dire need of tightened regulation. This can't be good for the US dollar, but with the Japanese standing by with unlimited money (40 trillion yen or $372 billion to prop up the dollar) it may not have the consequence it otherwise would have. quote.bloomberg.com The Japanese want a weaker currency, but their population are the world's greatest savers. They have long ago lowered their interest rates to zero, so this is the only game left. Print YEN and buy dollars. That will teach those pesky Japanese who want to work long hours and save and save!!! Merry Christmas to all.