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To: Little Joe who wrote (3960)	12/28/2003 2:05:44 PM
From: NOW	Respond to of 110194

if that presense makes the region more stable, sure. if....

To: Little Joe who wrote (3960)	12/28/2003 2:26:22 PM
From: Haim R. Branisteanu	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 110194

Unfortunate very few understand the move that the US made in Iraq and not for nothing there was and still is such strong opposition from the scam bags ruling "Old Europe". Libya gave up their WMD's not out of love of peace but after realizing that even covert assistance from France et-al will not help their economic interest. Even Syria started to change their tune after exposing their eastern flank to possible democracy

To: Little Joe who wrote (3960)	12/28/2003 6:58:42 PM
From: Kailash	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 110194

"It would seem to me that the presence of U.S. Military in oil region that is inherently unstable is good for all concerned." Wow. That's not a perspective the rest of the world has adopted, though I agree it's a common position and the mainstream media view here in the US. A much simpler view is to assume the US invaded Iraq to serve its own interests at the expense of other countries. The events at the UN shows that this is the common perception in the rest of the world. And in fact, far from stabilizing the Middle East, the US occupation of Iraq has turned it into a hotbed of violence and hatred that risks spilling over into Saudi Arabia. The conflict has severely disrupted oil supplies, contrary to what the Administration wanted or expected. They've been astoundingly inept in their post-war planning. You might say, Give it some time, but then recall that we went in there on the promise we'd be welcomed with roses and the whole endeavor would pay for itself with Iraq's oil. So far it's been disastrous and it may well continue to develop disastrously. I don't see the population getting used to a US occupation anytime soon, and I think it will be really hard for Bush to pull out if the country moves into a low-level civil war, which is not an implausible 2-5 year outcome. I don't think the Bush administration is trying to cause chaos or harm the people of Iraq, but these things don't matter much to them. What matters is control of the only remaining region with significant reserves of oil, at a moment when world production is about to decline. The history of war is full of excuses. Hitler claimed to be liberating Sudetenland and Austria. The idea that Bush at heart is just trying to do the world a favor can only be sustained if you think the world should really be a single US empire, a la the New American Century. Whatever you personally think of that prospect, the Chinese most definitely don't want it to happen and can't be expected to be aggressively financing it. Japan is a bit more likely to be interested in financing US aggression in the Middle East, if that could ensure the oil supply. The stakes are extremely high. If the Asians decide they have to let the dollar adjust to its free-market value, their own economies will take a massive hit. Sustaining the dollar is also unattractive: it involves buying debt that continually losing value, and paying for an army that you don't control. The Goldilocks scenario from the Asian point of view may be to hold the dollar up sufficiently to prevent a collapse of trade and the US economy, but to let it drop enough to discourage further military adventurism. It's called "Yanking the chain gently." The irony of globalization is that it's not an abstract idea anymore but a fact on the ground; the whole world really is a single, integrated economic system, cutting clear across national boundaries. For this fact to sink in, I hereby propose that every school child, after the pledge of allegiance, offer a brief prayer of appreciation to the Japanese for paying our daily bills. We're headed into interesting times, and "stability" is unlikely to be history's verdict. Cheers, Kailash