Some Military Emails and a short article on weapons.
Personal Weapons Use In Iraq
When I was headed to Turkey, then Iraq, in 1990, I was newly introduced to my unit as we got on board our aircraft headed downrange. My new Team Sergeant, who knew nothing about me (his new XO), looks over to me and says, "Hey, sir, you didn't bring any personal weapons with you, did you?". His tone sounded like he was against bringing personal weapons. They were proscribed and I had just had a briefing where I received a direct order to not bring personal weapons on Air Force transport.
I responded by pulling up my jacket and showing him my loaded Colt Combat Commander. He looked me in the eye.
"Well, at least our XO isn't stupid."
That weapon saved my life.
In the extended section, there is some information for the guns/weapons gurus out there from a friend of mine, a Green Beret Master Sergeant in Iraq. This is his response to an email I sent to him asking if I could try to get him something better to use (*ahem* via official channels). A word of caution: It is about the use of weapons in close combat and includes some details that may not be suitable for more delicate sensibilities.
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...Colt M4, 55gr FMJ 5.56, no problems point blank to 200 meters (our unit has gotten rid of the 2gr 'penetrator'). Most of our engagements involve multiple shots against each adversary. I'm not sure multiple shots are always needed, but it is so easy to just stay on target and keep shooting until he is out of the fight. Upper thoracic hits will get people down and out of the fight the fastest. Nothing new here. 5.56 55gr FMJ renders good penetration through vehicle windows, but my only experience is at under ten meters, and all shots were straight-on.
I bent the trigger guard on one of our favorite gunsmith's Lightweight Commanders. The trigger housing was bent and the underside of the frame was also slightly deformed. I shot this guy several times (45ACP Hardball, all we can get here), but he still would not let go of one of my people. I then grabbed him around his neck and beat him with the pistol. He finally succumbed to his wounds. I didn't notice the damage to my pistol until I cleaned it that evening. With a little 'home gunsmithing (vice, hammer, rebar),' it still works, and I'm still carrying it.
In another incident, one of my guys got hit (luckily, in the plate of the vest he was wearing) with a 9X19 pistol round at close range. He immediately returned fire with his M9 (issue 9X19 hardball) and hit the guy
five times close to the body midline. All hits were above the waist: one in neck. The bad guy was still able to close the distance, grab my guy, and try to choke him. MP came up and pumped two 12ga rounds (00Bk) into the bad guy him at pointblank range. That finally ended the fight.
Matt, this is a wild place. Just as it was with you in 91, we have contact every day. Every night the mortar rounds and small arms fire never stops. I saw a rifle round come through the tent and go through my sleeping bag and cot. I was sitting on a chair watching a DVD at the time. I saw another round come through our chow hall trailer, hit the salad bar, and then spin around on the floor. A trooper came up, grabbed the round, and said 'Lucky this thing didn't land in the salad; somebody could have broken a tooth!' Wartime humor, it seems, never changes."
Comment: 55gr hardball still works, at least at close range, and so long as you don't have to penetrate anything substantial. 9X19 hardball out of a pistol doesn't work well at any range.
All this we have known for years, but we still can't seem to get effective calibers and weapons into the hands of our soldiers. As I have noted, many have grown weary of waiting and have started to equip themselves.
December 11, 2003 | Permalink
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Tracked on December 31, 2003 06:37 PM
Comments
Yet another reason to push for the re-introduction of 45ACP back into the arsenal.
Posted by: Raging_Dave at December 11, 2003 12:14 PM
Hmmm, interesting stuff. In the Stans the issue 5.56 wasn't worth s&^t, as the bad guys were behind rocks, in caves. etc. and the engagement range was usually 100meters+.
We made it a habit to make sure the guys coming in would have a few cases of the Blackhills 68/75/77gr BTHP with them. Not exactly Geneva Convention approved, but I swear we aimed for their equipment.
One guy got a hold of an M-14 and what a beautiful weapon it was.
For PW's it was 45's all the way. Most guys carried some flavor of 1911, but I went with an HK, (not the issue Mk23 either).
Anyway, learned what the term, "knockdown power" was over there. Simply put, it's how many rounds you have to put into someone before they stop shooting back. Again, my vote goes with the M-14.
My little 'bro is with the 2/325th in As Samaniwah, (formerly of ODA-732 before getting Lt'd up) and I can already tell we'll have an intertesting conversation when he gets back.
Posted by: Scott at December 11, 2003 12:35 PM
I want to give my son my 1911 when he ships (again, fucking jarheads) early part of next year. Please email me with any suggestions on how to do it w/o getting him busted. I'd like to send him a couple of boxes of Black Talons and some Golden Sabres as well.
Posted by: Bane at December 11, 2003 08:17 PM
I guess that I can see why we can't just bring any POW's (Privately Owned Weapons-for all you civvies) out to Iraq. I knew a kid in Basic who kept asking the Drill Sergeants if he could bring all this weird stuff like butterfly knives and machetes if he got deployed. People like him ruin it for the rest of us.
I had orders to go to Iraq last summer, and my Dad, being the thoughtful ex-marine (is there such a thing?) that he is, bought me a Ka-bar for my birthday. The card said, "How's this for a Birthday present?" Anyway, my orders got changed because of a clerical screw-up, but I wouldn't have been able to bring the knife to the sandbox because it was over 6 inches long.
Really, what would it hurt for me to bring that with me? Well, it might hurt somebody...but that's the point, right?
Well, anyway...that's my Privately Owned Weapon story.
blackfive.net
The NATO standard pistol is worthless
More proof that the Beretta M9 automatic pistol that is the standard issue to American troops, firing NATO-standard 9mm ball round, is almost as much of a threat to our own troops as to the fedayeen enemy:
In another incident, one of my guys got hit (luckily, in the plate of the vest he was wearing) with a 9X19 pistol round at close range. He immediately returned fire with his M9 (issue 9X19 hardball) and hit the guy five times close to the body midline. All hits were above the waist: one in neck. The bad guy was still able to close the distance, grab my guy, and try to choke him. MP came up and pumped two 12ga rounds (00Bk) into the bad guy him at pointblank range. That finally ended the fight.
For auto combat pistols there is no peer of the .45-caliber ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) for knockdown power. There is only one handgun superior to it, the .357-magnum, but this is a revolver round and the Army gave up issuing revolvers about 100 years ago; handling them is too unwieldy in battle.
In fact, the .45 Colt was developed to replace the .38-caliber revolver used by US soldiers fighting the Hukbalahap tribesmen in the Philippines. The .38 couldn't be relied on to put the Huk warriors down; they would go into battle well fortified with homemade booze and local drugs. Some American soldiers were killed after pumping all six shots of the cylinder into a Huk, who was so anesthetized he couldn't feel the pain and so lean muscled that the weak .38 round often would not penetrate deep enough to drop him. And of course, reloading a revolver then - before speedloaders were invented - was a lengthy task.
Hence the .45 Colt, M1911 (later product improved and redesignated M1911A1), was introduced. As combat sidearms go, it was spectacularly successful. I was issued one myself when I was on active duty and carried one until I was assigned to 3d Battalion, 27th Field Artillery in 1987. That was when I was issued the M9.
IMO, the M9 has only two advantages over the M1911A1. It's lighter and repoints quicker after a shot because its recoil is less. Which sort of indicates the problem - its recoil is less because its throwing a lighter load, using less propellant. And that means less knockdown power.
I used to tell my troops that they would not need their weapons until they needed them real bad. This is urgently true with a handgun because that means the enemy is very close. Pistols are practically a principal weapon in urban fighting because they can be pointed more quickly than any other firearm. Close range gunfighters require maximum lethality to be standing at the end of the fight.
The 9mm just does not cut it. The Army should buy new .45 pistols (there being many models more modern than the old M1911A1) and re-adopt it as the standard sidearm.
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