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Politics : Foreign Policy Discussion Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: ChinuSFO who wrote (6460)	1/5/2004 9:10:46 AM
From: Chas.	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 15987

Chinu, you refuse to see the whole picture, you continually single out little occurrances or incidents to justify your position...... The bottom line is that 98% of the Arab people are not free to pursue goals of education or much of anything else other than the Islamic way. Their leaders have structured it that way in order to remain in power and perpetuate their Monarchs. They cannot go to a computer and the internet as you do and converse with others in the world as you do, but you apparantely think that is ok................ OK for Chinu to be free but not for the Arabs of the ME... to answer your other question about my neighborhood and acquaintances........I have many Arab, Jewish and Central Asian friends, many...... I know Arabs that are former US Marines and more American than I am and I know Arabs that would cut your throat for the hell of it as long as you were non-Arab, preferably American, I can also say the same about some Ukranian and Yugoslavian friends of mine, my Jewish friends are on a different page altogether, another story for another time. They all have one thing in commom........ All have migrated here to USA from a less than wonderful life in another country. You need to get out more........ regards

To: ChinuSFO who wrote (6460)	1/5/2004 9:49:25 AM
From: lorne	Respond to of 15987

chinu. you said...." Arab societies are and will continue to be civilized societies. You have no damn right to be derogatory of their society by saying that they are yielding to the pressure from civilized societies.".... Well of course I do you silly you. :-) It's called FREE speech. You know like the arab societies don't have. Just like you have the right to say what you wish in a civilized society that has free speech in their constitution which the arab societies do NOT.

To: ChinuSFO who wrote (6460)	1/5/2004 3:06:52 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 15987

Arab societies are and will continue to be civilized societies. Sure they are.. and this is reflected in the way many of them celebrate every special moment with a hail of automatic AK-47 rifle fire into the air (not caring where the bullets eventually land). Or how Arab men have the right to kill their spouse, or children, should they ever "dishonor" them... Or how the Arab society which lies at the heart of Islamic culture permits the beheading of people for adultery, or chopping off the hands of those who steal. Or how they force their women (primarily in Egypt) to be circumcized.. Or how they permit their highest religious leaders to espouse the killing and destruction of non-muslims (or even "heretical" muslims such as Shiites). And I could go on... Their own socieities are civilized enough to purge themselves of radical elements. And if there is so much progress taking place in Arab society, then how do you explaing the growing level of militancy (and lack of opposition to it). They have a culture and a very rich history. Sure they do (seriously).. But much of that seemed to stop several hundred years ago, IMO. Some Arab societies have taken on the limited "cloak of appearance" regarding modernization and moderation, but the institutional and cultural foundations required to perpetuate and sustain these changes have been lacking, or occurs only political pressure. The Bushies and their cronies are flooding the media with accusations that SA is funding the terrorists. Dead wrong. There is a faction in SA who oppose the terrorists tooth and nail. LOL!!! Which is it Chinu? Bush and his daddy trying to protect the Saudis and their interests in Carlyle Group, or trying to beat up on the Saudis? There is MORE THAN SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE to reflect that Saudi royals were directly, or indirectly funding militant causes, and in some cases, terrorists themselves (ask Prince and Princess Bandar where his donated money went). atimes.com There is a faction in SA who oppose the terrorists tooth and nail. Unfortunately it does not include Prince Nayef, the head of Saudi internal security (as the FA article I posted asserts). Nayef likes to use the militants as a threat against the Saudi Shiites. Anyone who understands how non-democratic societies work recognizes that state security and intelligence directors hold incredible power in those societies. Without the backing of state security (or the ability to "manipulate" it into a position where they are politically required to support the moderates (such as militant bombings against Muslims), there is little chance of making significant changes. Hawk