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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: PartyTime who wrote (524799)1/15/2004 9:35:23 PM
From: CYBERKEN  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769667
 
<<more and more citizens calling for a criminal investigation into how Bush...>>

ROFLMAO!!!

They're called "plants", and the Clinton/Gore Nazis are specialists...



To: PartyTime who wrote (524799)1/15/2004 9:36:21 PM
From: PROLIFE  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 769667
 
You just keep towing that DNC/Clinto line, boy.

NO one is paying any attention to your tripe other than to make fun of you...are you wondering why?

BTW, the UN, Germany, UK, Russia, CLinton(both of them,) all the Dem Senators, all Clinto's cabinet....all knew Saddam had WMD and all knew he had to be dealt with.

But, in the end, the failure of your best buddy, Saddam, to adhere to any of the numerous UN Resolutions, and the offers to leave the country, and his determination to rape his country until it was stone cold dead, is why he had to be dealt with. The fact that the sissies in France and the sissies in Germany could not back us makes NOT ONE bit of difference.



To: PartyTime who wrote (524799)1/15/2004 10:58:27 PM
From: geode00  Respond to of 769667
 
The Dems should get some balls and call for a Special Prosecutor. Clark is edging towards it. Perhaps if Rove pushes him too far he'll just go for it.

At any rate, what these right-wing extremists don't understand is Shrub is undermining the US and the values they supposedly hold dear for short term advantage. If this were Clinton going into Bosnia they would have a field day calling for him to be put into jail.

The Dems need to get it together. Whether they can or not remains to be seen. It's only two weeks into 2004 and it's already very, very bumpy.

The major corporate media had the temerity to show Bush being booed and hissed at in Atlanta. He wasn't invited to attend the ceremony, the WH had to instigate it.

Hey, anyone think Shrubbery will deign to attend the funeral of a fallen soldier from Iraq? He's so disrespectful of the military it's astonishing.



To: PartyTime who wrote (524799)1/16/2004 9:21:09 AM
From: jlallen  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769667
 
'Bush lied' and the lying liars who perpetuate it
Jonah Goldberg (archive)
January 16, 2004 | Print | Send
Sen. Ted Kennedy gave another one of his angry speeches this week. With all the gravitas he could muster, he recycled his standard complaint: that the Iraq war was never really about WMDs or the war on terror. It was a "political product" from "Day 1" of the president's administration.

This echoes Kennedy's earlier diatribes, like last fall when he said, "Before the war, week after week after week after week, we were told lie after lie after lie after lie."

Personally, I think Kennedy's an embarrassment to his party. But that doesn't change the fact that he's taken seriously or that he speaks for a large constituency. So let's try to deal with the "Kennedy School's" view of the Iraq war.

First let me admit that I think the failure to find significant evidence of weapons of mass destruction easily constitutes one of the greatest intelligence blunders since Pearl Harbor. There's still a chance we'll find something. But if we do, it will probably be too little, too late to change this basic assessment.

Critics of the Bush Administration are probably cheering, "Finally! Goldberg's stopped drinking the White House's Kool-Aid!"

But hold on. To argue that this was a huge intelligence blunder is to largely let George Bush off the hook for the even-more-popular Bush critique: that he lied to the American people about Iraq.

For Bush to have lied, he had to have known that there were no WMDs, right? It's not a lie unless you know the truth. If you say something you think is true that later turns out to be false, we don't call that a "lie," we call that a "mistake."

You could look it up.

This vital distinction seems to be lost on many smart people. For example, the online magazine Slate has been hosting an interesting discussion among the most respected and prominent liberals who supported the Iraq war. The question before them, more or less, is whether they regret it. Some do. Some don't. Most hold positions awash in shades of gray.

One of those is Kenneth Pollack, the former Clinton NSC staffer and author of the hugely influential book, "The Threatening Storm." Pollack's book was the most coherent and sustained case for the war from any quarter. Slate's round-robin is timed to coincide with a must-read cover story in the current issue of The Atlantic in which Pollack tries to figure out where he - and we - went wrong on WMDs.

Anyway, Pollack tells Slate, "If I had to write 'The Threatening Storm' over again I certainly would not have been so unequivocal that war was going to be a necessity."

In response, George Packer, a prominent liberal hawk, says, "Ken Pollack should be congratulated: How many leading voices on this issue have subjected themselves to such honest criticism? What he got wrong he got wrong because the intelligence was mistaken. What the administration got wrong it got wrong because it didn't care about the intelligence."

This encapsulates pretty much everything that's wrong with even the White House's most respected critics: a nearly total inability to consider the possibility that this administration operated in good faith.

Packer says Pollack's mistake was based on the best intelligence available; however, Bush & Co are a bunch of bloodthirsty ideologues or greedy liars or both.

Unfortunately, there are too many anti-Bush slanders out there to count, let alone debunk, but they are all premised on the "fact" that Bush lied.

But nobody has made a remotely persuasive case that Bush lied. The German, Russian, French, Israeli, British, Chinese and U.S. governments all agreed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. The German assessment was even more dire than our own. They were convinced Saddam would have a nuclear weapon by 2005.

Bill Clinton and his entire administration believed Saddam had WMDs. In 2002 Robert Einhorn, Clinton's point man on WMDs, testified to Congress, "Today, or at most within a few months, Iraq could launch missile attacks with chemical or biological weapons against its neighbors" including our 100,000 troops in Saudi Arabia.

The threat - chemical, biological and nuclear - against U.S. territory proper was only a few years away, according to Einhorn. Dick Gephardt, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, Wesley Clark, Joe Lieberman, Tony Blair, Hillary Clinton, Jacques Chirac, Gerhard Schroeder: all of these people believed Iraq had major stockpiles of WMDs.

Were they all "liars" like President Bush? No? Why not?

You can't have it both ways. You can't say Bush lied while others who said the same thing were being honest. The White House was operating with fundamentally identical information to that of Clinton, Pollack and Einhorn. What was different was that this White House needed to deal with the post-9/11 world.

Maybe that clouded Bush's judgment - or opened his eyes. Let's have that argument. I certainly believe mistakes were made (though I still believe the war was right and just). But if you start from Kennedy's premise that the WMD thing was made up, I can't take you seriously.

Jonah Goldberg is editor of National Review Online, a Townhall.com member group.

©2003 Tribune Media Services