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Politics : Moderate Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dale Baker who wrote (6131)	1/25/2004 9:51:34 AM
From: Crocodile	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

Actually, the whole notion of "proving" anything to any "determined government" is difficult. We see the same thing when it comes to environmental destruction. Often, the government and companies just barge along, destroying things while throwing wrenches into studies, etc... It's a cut-and-run tactic of swooping in to do what you want, and then swooping back out again after seizing the prize. They know that what they're doing is wrong, but basically, they don't give a damn, and they just hope that "the other side" wastes its time trying to prove that there's something sneaky going on. By the time they come up with that proof, the perps (government and companies) have already moved on to their next target. It's always a lot easier being the perp and planning your next "hit", than being the one trying to figure out what the hell happened after the fact. IMO, this is what happened in Iraq. The U.S. admin moved very rapidly, counting on the very fact that it would be impossible to come up with a "negative" before it was all a done deal.

To: Dale Baker who wrote (6131)	1/25/2004 11:06:33 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 20773

Many "conservatives" (they aren't REALLY conservatives, since they support Bush, who is some weird reactionary with poor wallet control) on SI said, over and over again, that the Kay report and inspections in Iraq would prove them right (I do not want to name names, or imply that these "conservatives" are on this thread). Now that these things have not proven them right, have in fact pretty much left them looking wrong, they want to change the issues. That's a very tempting game to play- we see it all the time on SI. People who do not like the issues, turn to personal attacks, or simply keep adding issues that have nothing to do with the original discussion. I hope the media does not let this slide. I hope our media lives up to its role as protector of our democracy, since they hold the key pathways which inform our citizens. The media has been asleep at the wheel, imo, in terms of hard hitting reporting- only the foreign media has been aggressive. I'd hate to see the American media remain the "imbedded" slavish parrots they've morphed into, over the last few years since 9/11. A threat to your country does not make the truth, and the search for truth, unpatriotic. What is unpatriotic, imo, is letting ideas go unchallenged- because then really bad ideas get by, as well as good ones- and there are a lot more bad ideas floated, than good.

To: Dale Baker who wrote (6131)	1/25/2004 4:42:27 PM
From: Sully-	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

Sorry Dale, but you folks are stuck one one single point of contention about the removal of Saddam's regime. The Bush Admin laid out all of the reasons necessary for compliance with the Cease Fire Agreement. Unaccounted for stockpiles of WMD's & WMD materials was but one of many significant issues that were defied by Saddam. This is an irrefutable fact. The Bush Admin made it clear that all of the requirements of the Cease Fire together are what made Saddam's regime so dangerous & failure to comply fully & unconditionally with any one of those requirements would bring about his removal. There is absolutely no doubt that Saddam remained defiant until the end & he utterly failed to meet many of the requirements of the Cease Fire Agreement. He continued to commit massive crimes against humanity. He continued to pursue development of his WMD programs. He continued to harbor, support & train terrorists. He continued to develop his missile programs well beyond the limits established. He continued to file false reports about his WMD programs. He continued to obstruct inspectors. He continued to deny overflights. He continued to intimidate scientists from cooperating with inspectors. He continued to hide materials & documentation related to his WMD programs. He continued to fail to cooperate with the IAEA. Etc., etc. I have posted all necessary evidence to support all of this on this thread. Yet somehow, you are convinced that the Bush Admin lied & misled. I submit that some folks are lying & being deceptive, but the evidence doesn't point to the Bush Admin.