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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Rascal who wrote (123875)	1/28/2004 12:38:53 PM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Yes intel misread iraq and then the admin componded the error by selling the war by by hyping what turned out to be the worst of that intel. That is because war has to be traditionally sold to a reluctant public. FDR/LBJ/NIxon did the same but that is no excuse. Going forward, the lesson or iraq has to be that the govt needs to be totally honest with the public. But that still wouldnt solve the problem of bad intel and among all intel received there will continue to be mistakes. Mike@itsadangerousworld.com

To: Rascal who wrote (123875)	1/28/2004 4:49:36 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<Foreigners in Iraq were tailed and harassed. In the United States or other parts of the world, they want to keep tabs on those they believe are foreign intelligences operators. But, they do it surreptitiously. In Iraq, it was very clear—you had someone walking fifty feet behind you at all times. If you did anything the Iraqis didn't like, they started harassing you. They'd throw you out of the country, they'd beat you up, they'd break into your home. They would make it very clear that if you kept doing things they didn't want, you could pay a very heavy price for it. They tapped all of the outgoing phone lines and tried to keep tabs on all the communication going into and out of Iraq.> In New Zealand, the criminal SIS [the secret boys' club of spies] illegally broke into a NZ citizen's house, Aziz Choudry. greens.org.nz With a name like Aziz, they probably thought he had it coming. Nixon's gang of plumbers broke into the Democratic Party offices. Criminal activity by governments against citizens and foreigners is not reserved for Saddam's Iraq. It's endemic and the USA is in the game. Why is surreptitious following any better than simply following 50 feet behind? At least with the honest following, you know you are being tailed. Who thinks the NSA [National Security Agency of the USA] doesn't tap all phone lines everywhere, not just the USA? We in NZ have some communications spy bases at Waihopai which work in the Echelon interception system for the USA. observer.com Nicky Hager is a dinkum Kiwi bloke doing a good job of protecting individuals against the Orwellian State. 100megsfree4.com Not just on this item, but on other things too. Ooops, just bumped into another example of the USA doing the tailing thing... wasn't even looking for it: < Shortly after her dismissal, F.B.I. agents turned up at the door of the Ms. Edmonds’ townhouse to seize her home computer. She was then called in to be polygraphed—a test which, she found out later, she passed. A few months after her dismissal, accompanied by her lawyer on a sunny morning in May 2002, Ms. Edmonds took her story to the Senate Judiciary Committee. As her high heels glanced off the marble steps of Congress she sensed two men ascending right behind her. Turning, she recognized the agent walk, the Ray-Bans, the outline of a weapon, and the deadest giveaway of all—a cell phone pointed straight at her, transmitting. "They weren’t secretive about it, they wanted me to know they’re there," she said. After being shadowed in plain sight many more times, she said with dark humor, "I call them my escorts." > observer.com Whining about Saddam doing the same in his own country is pathetic. The west has weapons of mass destruction and has used them. Hiroshima, Nagasaki. Saddam had nothing like that. The west has biological and chemical weaponry - they invented them! Their own weapon-grade anthrax was used to attack US citizens. Rich irony there. Hypocrisy seems to be a trait of the west. Dishonesty to the extent of forming the Official Disbanded Office of Disinformation. No wonder there's a proportion of the human population which wants to blow the west up. Mqurice PS: Bomb Bush Sarin Shhhh Top Dressing Crop Duster Hijack Noocular Inshallah Jihad Smallpox Anthrax with Chicken Flu Bush's Chicken Soup Rocket Propelled Grenade Fuel Contamination Earth Dam Soil Piping Collapse - that should get some hits in the Echelon spy network. Hi folks? How's it going in the spy base? Caught any evil-doers lately or do you mostly just chat up the girls and skive off early? I have an idea for collapsing earth dams which Islamic Jihad might like. They just need to make a little hole through any impermeable membrane which might be used and then run the hole far enough to build up pore water pressures sufficient to cause piping. Once that's under way, it's a short time before the whole dam erodes and all the water zooms downstream in a might torrent. See Ruahihi canal collapse for example, near Tauranga, New Zealand.