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To: RealMuLan who wrote (275916)	2/1/2004 6:37:27 PM
From: Dr. Voodoo	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 436258

Hi Yiwu, Those numbers jibe a lot more to me than the 90% number advanced, and are also not a majority. 30%-44% graduating = 30%-44% in the programs. If anything there would be less foreign students because a poorer economy now favors more Americans heading back to school. Also, I would be willing to bet the drop-out rate for foreigners is significantly lower because economic demand is higher for natives. Also there are barriers to how many foreigners you can have in a graduate program. Language and teaching ability being the first real limitation, immediately followed by governmental barriers, and funding. Oddly enough, before reading those numbers I surmised the numbers for biology would be lower than chemistry, but I would not think I could tell a difference of 4% just intuitively. Geographically I bet the numbers vary widely as well. Some graduate schools are much harder for foreign students to get into. The point that I made earlier but didn't develop is that a significant portion (40-70%)of those receiving advanced degrees stay here and do not return to their homeland. And last, those numbers are from all countries, a good portion of which are Western countries, not developing nations like india and china, so it can be kind of misleading assume that Americans aren't as bright as their foreign counterparts. As a result, you can assume that we are skimming off the cream of the crop, and using them to our own economic advantage. Makes us fat, lazy, arrogant Americans a little smarter than you think. ;-) Voodoo

To: RealMuLan who wrote (275916)	2/2/2004 10:33:29 PM
From: GraceZ	Respond to of 436258

Assuming top US science and math programs take the world's best, and that a normal distribution of students, who are good at math and science, exist across all populations, foreign born students are grossly under represented in US graduate programs judging from the numbers you posted. Now if you could explain why I would say that it would go a long way to convincing me that Asians are better at math and science! PS any third year American born engineering or science undergraduate major who didn't sleep through probability could tell you the answer. I went to art school!