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Politics : John EDWARDS for President -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: American Spirit who wrote (376)2/21/2004 1:19:14 PM
From: Ann Corrigan  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1381
 
Edwards keeps it civil, so do I. Can't say the same for you. Evidently you missed this:

A Vet Questions John Kerry's Military Service
By FrontPage Magazine
FrontPageMagazine.com | February 20, 2004
The following was sent to a Marine chat net by a retired Marine Master Sergeant who was in S-2, 3rd Bn, 1st Marines, Korea in 1954. It calls into serious question John Kerry's military actions in Vietnam. We present it to give our readers another perspective to the media's one-sided "war hero" adulation, and to open his actions to the light of public discourse. -- The Editors.

I was in the Delta shortly after John Kerry left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used, and I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command.

Here are my problems and suspicions:

(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware that fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job, but that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs.

(2) He collected three Purple Hearts but has no limp. All his injuries were so minor that he lost no time from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on, the boats were almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds, at least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three Purple Hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.

(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin .50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retreives the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong.
(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a frisbie after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50's.
(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some derring-do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too.
(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple: If you had somebody on the beach, your boat was defenseless. It coudn't run and it couldn' t return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.

Something is fishy.

Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running across the bow of a Japanese destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early and requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run for Congress. In that election, he finds out war heroes don't sell well in Massachsetts in 1970, so he reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and has Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting. A few years later he winds up in the Senate himself, where he votes against every major defense bill and says the CIA is irrelevant after the Berlin Wall came down. He votes against the Gulf War (a big political mistake since that turned out well), then decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for invading Iraq -- but that didn't fare as well with the Democrats, so he now says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to war.

I hope that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildly inflated.



To: American Spirit who wrote (376)2/21/2004 1:35:01 PM
From: Hope Praytochange  Respond to of 1381
 
kerryboy serving interest group since 1984 -- liar, murderer, traitor



To: American Spirit who wrote (376)2/21/2004 1:41:40 PM
From: Hope Praytochange  Respond to of 1381
 
Policy Disputes Over Hunt Paralyzed Clinton's Aides

By Steve Coll
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, February 22, 2004; Page A17

Between 1998 and 2000, the CIA and President Bill Clinton's national security team were caught up in paralyzing policy disputes as they secretly debated the legal permissions for covert operations against Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan.

The debates left both White House counterterrorism analysts and CIA career operators frustrated and at times confused about what kinds of operations could be carried out, according to interviews with more than a dozen officials and lawyers who were directly involved.

There was little question that under U.S. law it was permissible to kill bin Laden and his top aides, at least after the evidence showed they were responsible for the attacks on U.S. embassies in Africa in 1998. The ban on assassinations -- contained in a 1981 executive order by President Ronald Reagan -- did not apply to military targets, the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel had previously ruled in classified opinions. Bin Laden's Tarnak Farm and other terrorist camps in Afghanistan were legitimate military targets under this definition, White House lawyers agreed.

Also, the assassination ban did not apply to attacks carried out in preemptive self-defense -- when it seemed likely that the target was planning to strike the United States. Clearly bin Laden qualified under this standard as well.

Clinton had demonstrated his willingness to kill bin Laden, without any pretense of seeking his arrest, when he ordered the cruise missile strikes on an eastern Afghan camp in August 1998, after the CIA obtained intelligence that bin Laden might be there for a meeting of al Qaeda leaders.

Yet the secret legal authorizations Clinton signed after this failed missile strike required the CIA to make a good faith effort to capture bin Laden for trial, not kill him outright.

Beginning in the summer of 1998, Clinton signed a series of top secret memos authorizing the CIA or its agents to use lethal force, if necessary, in an attempt to capture bin Laden and several top lieutenants and return them to the United States to face trial.

From Director George J. Tenet on down, the CIA's senior managers wanted the White House lawyers to be crystal clear about what was permissible in the field. They were conditioned by history -- the CIA assassination scandals of the 1970s, the Iran-contra affair of the 1980s -- to be cautious about legal permissions emanating from the White House. Earlier in his career, Tenet had served as staff director of the Senate Intelligence Committee and director of intelligence issues at the White House, roles steeped in the Washington culture of oversight and careful legality.

Tenet and his senior CIA colleagues demanded that the White House lay out rules of engagement for capturing bin Laden in writing, and that they be signed by Clinton. Then, with such detailed authorizations in hand, every one of the CIA officers who handed a gun or a map to an Afghan agent could be assured that he or she was operating legally.

This was the role of the Memorandum of Notification, as it was called. It was typically seven or eight pages long, written in the form of a presidential decision memo. It began with a statement about how bin Laden and his aides had attacked the United States. The memo made clear the president was aware of the risks he was assuming as he sent the CIA into action.

Some of the most sensitive language concerned the specific authorization to use deadly force. Clinton's national security aides said they wanted to encourage the CIA to carry out an effective operation against bin Laden, not to burden the agency with constraints or doubts. Yet Clinton's aides did not want authorizations that could be interpreted by Afghan agents as an unrestricted license to kill. For one thing, the Justice Department signaled that it would oppose such language if it was proposed for Clinton's signature.

The compromise wording, in a succession of bin Laden-focused memos, always expressed some ambiguity about how and when deadly force could be used in an operation designed to take bin Laden into custody. Typical language, recalled one official involved, instructed the CIA to "apprehend with lethal force as authorized."

At the CIA, officers and supervisors agonized over these abstract phrases. They worried that if an operation in Afghanistan went badly, they would be accused of having acted outside the memo's scope. Over time, recriminations grew between the CIA and the White House.

It was common in Clinton's cabinet and among his National Security Council aides to see the CIA as much too cautious, paralyzed by fears of legal and political risks. At Langley, this criticism rankled. The CIA's senior managers believed officials at the White House wanted to have it both ways: They liked to blame the agency for its supposed lack of aggression, yet they sent over classified legal memos full of wiggle words.

Clinton's covert policy against bin Laden pursued two goals at the same time. He ordered submarines equipped with cruise missiles to patrol secretly under ocean waters off Pakistan in the hope that CIA spotters would one day identify bin Laden's location confidently enough to warrant a deadly missile strike.

But Clinton also authorized the CIA to carry out operations that legally required the agency's officers to plan in almost every instance to capture bin Laden alive and bring him to the United States to face trial.

This meant the CIA officers had to arrange in advance for detention facilities, extraction flights and other elaborate contingencies -- even if they expected that bin Laden would probably die in the arrest attempt. These requirements made operational planning much more cumbersome, the CIA officers contended.

In fashioning this sensitive policy in the midst of an impeachment crisis that lasted into early 1999, Clinton's national security adviser, Samuel R. "Sandy" Berger, struggled to forge a consensus within the White House national security team. Among other things, he had to keep on board a skeptical Attorney General Janet Reno and her Justice Department colleagues, who were deeply invested in law enforcement approaches to terrorism, according to senior officials involved.

As the months passed, Clinton signed new memos in which the language, while still ambiguous, made the use of lethal force by the CIA's Afghan agents more likely, according to officials involved. At first the CIA was permitted to use lethal force only in the course of a legitimate attempt to make an arrest. Later the memos allowed for a pure lethal attack if an arrest was not possible. Still, the CIA was required to plan all its agent missions with an arrest in mind.

Some CIA managers chafed at the White House instructions. The CIA received "no written word nor verbal order to conduct a lethal action" against bin Laden before Sept. 11, one official involved recalled. "The objective was to render this guy to law enforcement." In these operations, the CIA had to recruit agents "to grab [bin Laden] and bring him to a secure place where we can turn him over to the FBI. . . . If they had said 'lethal action' it would have been a whole different kettle of fish, and much easier."

Berger later recalled his frustration about this hidden debate. Referring to the military option in the two-track policy, he said at a 2002 congressional hearing: "It was no question, the cruise missiles were not trying to capture him. They were not law enforcement techniques."

The overriding trouble was, whether they arrested bin Laden or killed him, they first had to find him.

© 2004 The Washington Post Company



To: American Spirit who wrote (376)2/22/2004 7:24:17 AM
From: GROUND ZERO™  Respond to of 1381
 
Anyone who doesn't agree with you is a liar, huh... interesting...

GZ



To: American Spirit who wrote (376)2/22/2004 12:44:16 PM
From: Hope Praytochange  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1381
 
Benedict Arnold & John Kerry...by C.J. Cheetham
Posted: February 17, 2004 1:00 a.m. Eastern
Message 19831752
He was a patriot. He led forces in the critical capture of an enemy position
early in the war effort.

Five months later, this American commander led an expedition of 1,150
riflemen against an enemy's capital city. The American commander drove his
men hard through the wilderness, overcoming leaky boats, spoiled provisions,
treacherous rivers and near starvation to arrive at the capital in November,
his force reduced to 650 men.

He fought on. Joining with another unit he pressed the attack to another key
enemy city where his troops took heavy losses and he himself was wounded. As
he charged at the enemy, his leg was taken out from under him - an enemy
round running right through his thigh.

And yet, he fought on! For five more years he fought valiantly and was
wounded in action a second time (again shot in the leg). No general was more
imaginative than he, no field officer more daring, no soldier more
courageous.

Yet Benedict Arnold has gone down in history not as a hero but as a villain,
a military traitor who, as commander of the American fort at West Point,
N.Y., in 1780, schemed to hand it over to the British.

He deserved to be called a traitor. And he deserves to be synonymous with
treason.

When America had a clear moral vision, we were able to see that people like
Benedict Arnold were traitors. Yet today, a man who was far less valiant and
far more treasonous is about to be nominated by the Democrats for the
presidency.

John Kerry couldn't hold a candle to Benedict Arnold in terms of service.
Arnold served longer, with greater distinction, and in more dangerous
environs.

Kerry has outdone Arnold in only one respect - Kerry's treason was more
insidious, more immoral and more harmful to America than Arnold could
muster.

Sadly, America has lost her ability to understand issues of treason. So, the
name Arnold remains interchangeable with treason and Kerry continues to be
called a "hero." On many of America's elementary-school playgrounds, boys
will still playfully call each other "Benedict Arnold" in order to convey a
feeling of betrayal. These children will see no moral dichotomy in
understanding clearly that Arnold was a traitor, while a man of lesser
character vies for the presidency. This is not the fault of our children,
but the fault of American adults who have grown weary of right and wrong.

So, Kerry who sold out to the communists is a hero. Kerry who accused
American soldiers of horrific war crimes without a shred of evidence is a
hero. Kerry who threw his medals at the White House in the 1970s is a hero.
Kerry who cavorted with Jane Fonda, Tom Hayden and the radical left at a
time we still had brave soldiers on the field of battle is a hero. Kerry who
voted against every major weapons system now defending us in the war on
terror is a hero. Kerry who wanted to abolish the CIA is now a hero.

After all, the argument goes: "That was 30 years ago!" And yet, Benedict
Arnold (rightfully) is still considered a traitor 224 years later.

We have indeed lost much of our moral compass in two short centuries.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

C.J. Cheetham is a free-lance writer who lives in Virginia with his wife and
two children. He is also a veteran of Desert Storm, where he served proudly
with the 772nd Military Police Company (Massachusetts Army National Guard).

Message 19831752



To: American Spirit who wrote (376)2/22/2004 12:45:54 PM
From: Hope Praytochange  Respond to of 1381
 
Friday, February 20th, 2004
John Kerry Then: Kerry's Historic 1971 Testimony Against the Vietnam War
democracynow.org
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
After returning from the Vietnam War, John Kerry became a prominent critic
of the war. He testified before the Senate in 1971 and told of atrocities
being committed by U.S. troops. He called for the immediate withdrawal of
U.S. troops. And he asked: "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die
in Vietnam? How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"
We broadcast a rare recording of this historic address from the Pacifica
Radio Archives.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
On October 9, 2002, Massachusetts Senator John Kerry stood on the Senate
floor and spoke in favor of the invasion of Iraq. The next day he voted to
authorize President Bush to go to war.
Thirty years earlier, Kerry became a leading voice against the war in
Vietnam.

Kerry returned from Vietnam in April 1969, having won early transfer out of
the conflict because of his three Purple Hearts. He had also won a Silver
Star.

When Kerry returned home, over 540,000 U.S. troops were deployed in Vietnam.
Some 33,400 had been killed, and the number of protests in the U.S. was
surging.

Kerry gradually became active in the antiwar movement. After working behind
the scenes and making a few little-noticed appearances at rallies, he joined
a group called Vietnam Veterans Against the War.

In January 1971, the organization held a series of hearings in Detroit
called the "Winter Soldier Investigation." Kerry did not speak at the event,
which received only modest press coverage. This is an excerpt of a veteran
testifying at the hearings. He describes what it was like in Vietnam.

Winter Soldier Investigation documentary
John Kerry declined to speak at the "Winter Soldier Investigation" hearings,
but a bigger stage awaited him.

Three months after the hearings, Kerry took his case to congress and spoke
before a jammed Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Television cameras lined
the walls, and veterans packed the seats.

Kerry was 27 years old and dressed in his green fatigues and Silver Star and
Purple Heart ribbons. On April 22, 1971, he sat at a witness table and
delivered the most famous speech of his life. It was to become the speech
that defined him and make possible his political career. Overnight, he
emerged as one of the most recognized veterans in America.

Pacifica Radio played his speech on the air. Today, we will play a rare
broadcast of that speech. From the Pacifica Radio Archives, this is John
Kerry in 1971.

John Kerry, testifying on April 22, 1971.

Pacifica Radio Archives

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT
JOHN KERRY: Several months ago, in Detroit, we had an investigation at which
over 150 honorably discharged, and many very highly decorated, veterans
testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia. These were not isolated
incidents, but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis, with the full
awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe
to you exactly what did happen in Detroit--the emotions in the room, and the
feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They
relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told stories that, at times, they had personally raped, cut off ears,
cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and
turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at
civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot
cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the
countryside of South Vietnam, in addition to the normal ravage of war and
the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing
power of this country.

We call this investigation the Winter Soldier Investigation. The term
"winter soldier" is a play on words of Thomas Paine's in 1776, when he spoke
of the "sunshine patriots," and "summertime soldiers" who deserted at Valley
Forge because the going was rough.

We who have come here to Washington have come here because we feel we have
to be winter soldiers now. We could come back to this country, we could be
quiet, we could hold our silence, we could not tell what went on in Vietnam,
but we feel, because of what threatens this country, not the reds, but the
crimes which we are committing that threaten it, that we have to speak out.

I would like to talk to you a little bit about what the result is of the
feelings these men carry with them after coming back from Vietnam. The
country doesn't know it yet, but it has created a monster, a monster in the
form of millions of men who have been taught to deal and to trade in
violence, and who are given the chance to die for the biggest nothing in
history; men who have returned with a sense of anger and a sense of betrayal
which no one has yet grasped.

As a veteran and one who felt this anger, I would like to talk about it. We
are angry because we feel we have been used it the worst fashion by the
administration of this country.

In 1970, at West Point, Vice President Agnew said, "some glamorize the
criminal misfits of society while our best men die in Asian rice paddies to
preserve the freedom which most of those misfits abuse," and this was used
as a rallying point for our effort in Vietnam.

But for us, as boys in Asia whom the country was supposed to support, his
statement is a terrible distortion from which we can only draw a very deep
sense of revulsion. Hence the anger of some of the men who are here in
Washington today. It is a distortion because we in no way consider ourselves
the best men of this country, because those he calls misfits were standing
up for us in a way that nobody else in this country dared to, because so
many who have died would have returned to this country to join the misfits
in their efforts to ask for an immediate withdrawal from South Vietnam,
because so many of those best men have returned as quadriplegics and
amputees, and they lie forgotten in Veterans' Administration hospitals in
this country which fly the flag which so many have chosen as their own
personal symbol. And we cannot consider ourselves America's best men when we
are ashamed of and hated what we were called on to do in Southeast Asia.

In our opinion, and from our experience, there is nothing in South Vietnam
which could happen that realistically threatens the United States of
America. And to attempt to justify the loss of one American life in Vietnam,
Cambodia, or Laos by linking such loss to the preservation of freedom, which
those misfits supposedly abuse, is to us the height of criminal hypocrisy,
and it is that kind of hypocrisy which we feel has torn this country apart.

We found that not only was it a civil war, an effort by a people who had for
years been seeking their liberation from any colonial influence whatsoever,
but, also, we found that the Vietnamese, whom we had enthusiastically molded
after our own image, were hard-put to take up the fight against the threat
we were supposedly saving them from.

We found most people didn't even know the difference between communism and
democracy. They only wanted to work in rice paddies without helicopters
strafing them and bombs with napalm burning their villages and tearing their
country apart. They wanted everything to do with the war, particularly with
this foreign presence of the United States of America, to leave them alone
in peace, and they practiced the art of survival by siding with whichever
military force was present at a particular time, be it Viet Cong, North
Vietnamese or American.

We found also that, all too often, American men were dying in those rice
paddies for want of support from their allies. We saw first hand how monies
from American taxes were used for a corrupt dictatorial regime. We saw that
many people in this country had a one-sided idea of who was kept free by the
flag, and blacks provided the highest percentage of casualties. We saw
Vietnam ravaged equally by American bombs and search-and-destroy missions as
well as by Viet Cong terrorism, - and yet we listened while this country
tried to blame all of the havoc on the Viet Cong.

We rationalized destroying villages in order to save them. We saw America
lose her sense of morality as she accepted very coolly a My Lai, and refused
to give up the image of American soldiers who hand out chocolate bars and
chewing gum.

We learned the meaning of free-fire zones--shooting anything that moves--and
we watched while America placed a cheapness on the lives of orientals.

We watched the United States falsification of body counts, in fact the
glorification of body counts. We listened while, month after month, we were
told the back of the enemy was about to break. We fought using weapons
against "oriental human beings" with quotation marks around that. We fought
using weapons against those people which I do not believe this country would
dream of using, were we fighting in the European theater. We watched while
men charged up hills because a general said that hill has to be taken, and,
after losing one platoon, or two platoons, they marched away to leave the
hill for reoccupation by the North Vietnamese. We watched pride allow the
most unimportant battles to be blown into extravaganzas, because we couldn't
lose, and we couldn't retreat, and because it didn't matter how many
American bodies were lost to prove that point, and so there were Hamburger
Hills and Khe Sanhs and Hill 81s and Fire Base 6s, and so many others.

Now we are told that the men who fought there must watch quietly while
American lives are lost so that we can exercise the incredible arrogance of
"Vietnamizing" the Vietnamese.

Each day, to facilitate the process by which the United States washes her
hands of Vietnam, someone has to give up his life so that the United States
doesn't have to admit something that the entire world already knows, so that
we can't say that we have made a mistake. Someone has to die so that
President Nixon won't be, and these are his words, "the first President to
lose a war."

We are asking Americans to think about that, because how do you ask a man to
be the last man to die in Vietnam? How do you ask a man to be the last man
to die for a mistake? We are here in Washington to say that the problem of
this war is not just a question of war and diplomacy. It is part and parcel
of everything that we are trying, as human beings, to communicate to people
in this country--the question of racism, which is rampant in the military,
and so many other questions, such as the use of weapons: the hypocrisy in
our taking umbrage at the Geneva Conventions and using that as justification
for a continuation of this war, when we are more guilty than any other body
of violations of those Geneva Conventions; in the use of free-fire zones;
harassment-interdiction fire, search-and-destroy missions; the bombings; the
torture of prisoners; all accepted policy by many units in South Vietnam.
That is what we are trying to say. It is part and parcel of everything.

An American Indian friend of mine who lives in the Indian Nation of Alcatraz
put it to me very succinctly: He told me how, as a boy on an Indian
reservation, he had watched television, and he used to cheer the cowboys
when they came in and shot the Indians, and then suddenly one day he stopped
in Vietnam and he said, "my God, I am doing to these people the very same
thing that was done to my people," and he stopped. And that is what we are
trying to say, that we think this thing has to end.

We are here to ask, and we are here to ask vehemently, where are the leaders
of our country? Where is the leadership? We're here to ask where are
McNamara, Rostow, Bundy, Gilpatrick, and so many others? Where are they now
that we, the men they sent off to war, have returned? These are the
commanders who have deserted their troops. And there is no more serious
crime in the laws of war. The Army says they never leave their wounded. The
Marines say they never even leave their dead. These men have left all the
casualties and retreated behind a pious shield of public rectitude. They've
left the real stuff of their reputations bleaching behind them in the sun in
this country....

We wish that a merciful God could wipe away our own memories of that service
as easily as this administration has wiped away their memories of us. But
all that they have done, and all that they can do by this denial, is to make
more clear than ever our own determination to undertake one last mission: To
search out and destroy the last vestige of this barbaric war; to pacify our
own hearts; to conquer the hate and fear that have driven this country these
last ten years and more. And more. And so, when, thirty years from now, our
brothers go down the street without a leg, without an arm, or a face, and
small boys ask why, we will be able to say "Vietnam" and not mean a desert,
not a filthy obscene memory, but mean instead where America finally turned,
and where soldiers like us helped it in the turning.

To purchase an audio or video copy of this entire program, click here for
our new online ordering or call 1 (800) 881-2359.

TODAY'S STORIES

Headlines for February 19, 2004

John Kerry Then: Kerry's Historic 1971 Testimony Against the Vietnam War

John Kerry Now: Kerry Backs Iraq Invasion & U.S. Militarism

Malcolm X: May 19, 1925 - Feb. 21, 1965



To: American Spirit who wrote (376)2/22/2004 8:18:30 PM
From: Lazarus_Long  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1381
 
There's no contradiction being being a war hero and a traitor. Think "Benedict Arnold".

"Hero" and "trial lawyer" sure don't fit though.