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To: azb111 who wrote (17705)	2/23/2004 2:46:57 PM
From: Tradelite	Respond to of 306849

What do you propose be done about the problems you mentioned? Agree the politicians aren't offering much in the way of solutions. Got any yourself?

To: azb111 who wrote (17705)	2/23/2004 3:44:41 PM
From: patron_anejo_por_favor	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 306849

<<The economies of scale are simply too drastic. People overseas work for 10 time LESS than Americans. Plus - We have a huge overhead to pay for - nationally, our military budgets, social security, etc. PLUS - health costs, lawyers, environmental laws. etc. are costs added to EACH labor dollar. WE CANNOT COMPETE ECONOMICALLY !!>> This is your key point. I agree, and would add that protectionism will probably hurt as much as it would help. I predict massive political upheaval in the US within 15 years...the jobs will leave until the US per capita wage is approximately on par with everyone else around the world, adjusted for educational level. That means MUCH lower inflation-adjusted incomes, and a MUCH lower standard of living, which will pit the working and middle (and formerly upper middle classes) increasingly against corporate interests and the ruling business elites. It will be nasty, and no one can say how it ends.

To: azb111 who wrote (17705)	2/23/2004 5:24:27 PM
From: TheStockFairy	Respond to of 306849

all of these people should have purchased a 100k house that appreciated to $500k, then they could have cash out refi'd 400k, then in 2 months after that they could have sold the house for $600k. with that money they could retire for about 20 years. On top of that, they could wait till the rates go up, buy their old home out of foreclosure for $150k and wait 30 years to do it again. who needs a job when you own your own home?

To: azb111 who wrote (17705)	2/24/2004 2:44:47 AM
From: Amy J	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 306849

azb111, RE: "We - the workers - are talking, but NO ONE is listening. " Good post. Bush & Snow seem to think "everything will be okay". It won't be, unless we take action. New innovation is required to give existing engineers jobs at high pay. Meanwhile, some of the Dems (not Zoe) are thinking unemployed hightech people got paid a lot so why do they need any help? Hightech is being treated poorly by both parties in Congress, White House and Dept of Labor. A hightech worker actually had to sue the Dept of Labor to convince them that as an unemployed IBM software engineer he deserved funding to be retrained into another field since his job was moved overseas. (There's a law that says people who lose their jobs due to it moving overseas, should get govt paid training. But try telling that to the Dept of Labor.) Hightech has been treated poorly. You are absolutely correct in saying the govt could care less about what happens to our engineers here and our industry. They are more interested in an election, than improving hightech. Hightech is getting the shaft. Maybe our engineers should have majored in Real Estate, because bonds are the only thing this government seems to feed. Regards, Amy J

To: azb111 who wrote (17705)	2/24/2004 3:01:50 AM
From: Amy J	Respond to of 306849

azb111, RE: "How would you feel if you mailed out 500 resumes and got NO reply." They should never take it personally. The market is beginning to turn for the better and recruiters are just now hiring the business people that in turn will hire engineers. China and India are already getting a bit tapped out. I'll gladly pay a USA engineer $80k base here, than $25k elsewhere on a variety of key engineering projects. Do not neglect the creative innovation and efficiency of the USA system. Having said that, if we stand still and don't improve our education that feeds RND while overseas does, we'll have an even worse problem down the road. RE: "People overseas work for 10 time LESS than Americans." Am very familiar with what a lot of companies are paying overseas. While the figure above is correct for call centers, if it's a reference to engineering positions, the figure above sounds like it came from our sensationalized media. Regards, Amy J