Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: GST who wrote (125543)	3/3/2004 12:05:07 PM
From: Bald Eagle	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Do we have any Shiites in this country doing this? If so, I hope child welfare gets after them! story.news.yahoo.com

To: GST who wrote (125543)	3/3/2004 12:11:07 PM
From: Sig	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<<Step one is recognise the depth and breadth of the mistake>> Step 2 is to forget about step 1 and realize that our 'mistake' has freed 23mm Iraqis from decades of tyranny and has established a base for a democratically oriented government in the ME But am glad you recognize that the past is finished. We are there and will stay while needed. Its not a Viet-Nam, nor WW111. The enemy has no tanks, no choppers,no army, no howitzers. And his suicide bombers are suffering 100% casualties. It just takes time, for the general populous to recognize their present enemy is not the US but people from their own ranks. That becomes clearer each day, and when it is universally known the Iraqis will come up with the answers, and apply their own police or troops to handle the problems. We still get some blame, as it is common to put the blame for any problems on strangers in the region, but the light is dawning that we cannot fix all their internal dissentions. If any opposition group gets organized or concentrated they will be doomed. Sig

To: GST who wrote (125543)	3/3/2004 12:31:03 PM
From: Jacob Snyder	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Military Spending Soars, Security Suffers: atimes.com

To: GST who wrote (125543)	3/3/2004 1:05:25 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Step one is recognize the depth and breadth of the mistake. So, if I'm not mistaken, your "plan" (and probably Kerry's as well) is to recommend a study, possibly a congressional commission, and why not get the UN involved, so as to debate the issue.. More debates.. more discussions.. more talk... maybe even years and thousands of man-hours dedicated to trying to figure out what to do with the current situation.. You haven't even provided any recommendations for an alternative plan of action in Iraq, outside of setting up debating societies.. Why not just come out and admit that you don't have a plan, GST? Step four is to decide where our interests lie in terms of civil war. We can take sides or choose not to take sides. Who the hell do you think you are? We're now going to "play politics" with the lives of tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of potential victims who would lose their lives in such a civil war? Playing God must feel good, eh?? The US interest (as well as that of the World, not to forget, your average Iraqi) is to prevent a civil war and establish a government where all the parties believe their interests are fairly represented WITHOUT RESORTING TO VIOLENCE.. And should civil war break out in Iraq, it had better be in the US interest to use coercive force against ALL parties who opt to resort to violence to advance their agendas. If we take sides we might be able to stop civil war before it really gets going, If there's ANY lesson we should have drawn from our involvement in Lebanon, it was that the minute the US is credibly perceived as "taking sides", except as an advocate for an inclusive and representative government, we're in deep trouble.. We should be there as a referee, through coercive means when necessary, with the only aim being assisting the Iraqis in sorting out their differences and arriving at compromise. Hawk

To: GST who wrote (125543)	3/3/2004 3:58:27 PM
From: Jacob Snyder	Respond to of 281500

re: your 4-step program: Step 1: In the Age of Lies, everyone in power says: "I'm right, I've always been right, I've always said exactly what I say today, and God is on my side." When their lies are exposed, they just move on, turn the page, change the subject. So, forget Step 1. Step 2: The Administration negotiates with Sistani, not Chalabi. It was Sistani who said no to our plan for caucusses, and made Bush see the error of his ways. Chalabi wasn't even a bit player in that tug-of-war over elections vs. caucusses, "consent of the governed" vs. "managed democracy". Chalabi is already a non-entity, and has been for a while. Step 3: I think they are already aware of the danger of Civil War in Iraq. But they are also still clinging to their wishful thinking and utopian dreams, which gets in the way of any workable response to the threat. Our efforts here, are likely to be crude and clumsy. For us to openly back any faction, would be the "kiss of death", as nobody wants to be seen as collaborating with us. Step 4: Our interests are in having the ground held by somebody, anybody, who doesn't hate us so deeply they send suicide bombers into America. That's a realistic goal, and we should ditch all the other goals, as hopelessly grandiose. My guess is, the likeliest candidate for that, is Sistani.