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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Hawkmoon who wrote (125606)3/4/2004 5:27:00 PM
From: Dennis O'Bell  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
What's Kerry's plan? Are your really advocating electing someone WHO HAS YET TO DISCUSS WHAT HE WOULD DO DIFFERENTLY??

I have had better things to do than enter into this often morally oblique and in any case useless political mudslinging from either the right or the left. But I honestly wonder what someone like Kerry might really do if he is elected and not just constrained to proffer political election bs jive. And I really don't have a clue and haven't seen one.

I suppose we might soon find out.... the worst outcome would be to scuttle things that have already been started for short sighted political reasons. Whatever the criticisms of this administration may be, they have not undertaken major projects only in the aims of screwing the other political party. 9/11 has essentially ensured that. This was not the case with the witch hunt against Klintoon for the BJ in the oval office - an issue that was far too trivial with respect to the real problems that were simmering for the country to have wasted so much time and effort on it.



To: Hawkmoon who wrote (125606)3/4/2004 9:02:47 PM
From: GST  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
1) Acknowledge the depth of the mistake: Until we do this there is no way to move forward at all.

2) Restore some faith in the Defense Department: Fire Rumsfeld and clean house by purging the neocons.

3) Recognize that full extent of the civil war and regional war threat: By pretending that things are getting better and that we should just stay longer we are lulling ourselves to sleep while Rome burns.

4) Tell the American people the truth. Come clean about what are true options what are the true costs and the true risks. Whatever we do it will be costly and their is no free solution. People are going to keep on dying and staying is going to cost a fortune. This must be reflected in the federal budget.

5) Hold elections in Iraq by the end of the year -- do not allow voting from outside Iraq (only people residing in Iraq should vote). The elections will be deeply flawed, violent and the results are certain to be held in contempt -- but given what we have promised we have no choice but to at least pretend to be able to establish a democratically elected government.

6) Give up all economic and political control to the UN now and to Iraqis by the end of the year -- understanding that civil and regional war are definite possibilities if we do.

7) Maintain a military presence so long as it is permitted by Iraq itself -- if the new Government says "leave" we must leave. If we are not asked to leave, we should plan to stay for five years and then we should leave. We should not have a permanent base in Iraq.

The probable outcome from all of this? Many more deaths, some form of civil war, continued regional instability and an increase in terrorism. There is a reason why sane people advised against a unilateral invasion -- people advised against it because there would not be a good outcome. They were right. We will eventually withdraw in some manner similar to what I have outlined -- the emphasis is and will be increasingly on damage control. No children will fly kites in the streets when we leave. No children flew kites when we arrived. Self-interested and ideologically driven parties fanned the flames of war and like fools we stepped in and got burned. Now the goal is to stop the bleeding. Our military have served brilliantly -- our politicians have failed miserably.



To: Hawkmoon who wrote (125606)3/4/2004 9:06:54 PM
From: GST  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Europeans Say Iraq War Raised Threat
Thu Mar 4, 4:53 PM ET

By WILL LESTER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - A majority of people living in the two countries bordering the United States and in five major European countries say they think the war in Iraq (news - web sites) increased the threat of terrorism in the world, Associated Press polls found.

In the United States, people were evenly divided on whether the war has increased or decreased the terror threat.

The AP polls were conducted by Ipsos, an international polling firm, in Britain, Canada, France, Italy, Germany, Mexico, Spain and the United States.

While a majority in each of the countries polled except the United States said the terrorism threat was greater now, fewer than one in 10 in any of the European countries said the terror threat had been decreased by the war.

In Canada and France, just over half felt it had been increased, whereas in Germany, three-fourths thought the Iraq war has made the terror problem worse.

Concern about terrorism was very high in Italy and Germany, where about seven in 10 said they were very worried or somewhat worried, and especially in Spain, 85 percent, where residents also have to contend with domestic terrorism by Basque separatists. The high levels of concern about terrorism are probably linked to the recent history of terror in those countries, one public opinion analyst said.

"Italy and Germany were the countries most heavily affected by terrorism during the 1970s," said Christian Holst, director of opinion research at Ipsos Germany. "This kind of sticks in people's memories — the older they are, the more they remember, and the higher the level of fear is."

Fewer than half in Canada said they were worried about terrorism, a finding that didn't surprise Darrell Bricker, president of public affairs polling of Ipsos-Reid in Canada.

"Our experience with terrorism tends to be on the news and south of the border, not here," Bricker said.

Events in the Mideast are increasing terror concerns in many countries, the polls found. A majority in each country, including the United States, said they felt the situation between Israel and the Palestinians has made the terror threat around the world worse.

General negative feelings about the Iraq war contribute to fears of "either defeated Iraqis or terrorists who use the Iraq war as a pretext to commit attacks," Holst said.

The polls found that people living in all the countries except the United States have an unfavorable view of the role that President Bush (news - web sites) plays in world affairs. Only in the United States did a majority, 57 percent, have a positive view of the role played by the U.S. president.

Just over half in Mexico and Italy had a negative view of Bush's role. In Britain, the closest U.S. ally in the war in Iraq, and in Canada, two-thirds have a negative view.

Sam McGuire, director of opinion research at Ipsos UK, said Bush's low ratings in Britain are notable, given that country's close alliance with the United States. Britain traditionally has been seen as the United States' "staunchest European ally on world affairs," he said, and long has been a buffer between the United State and Europe.

Three-fourths of those in Spain and more than four in five in France and Germany had a negative view of Bush's role in world affairs.

"Bush has a lot of work to do if he wants to be popular in France," said Edouard LeCerf, director of opinion research for Ipsos France.

People in the different countries had a more mixed reaction about whether Britain and the United States should have gone to war in Iraq, if it turns out no weapons of mass destruction are found.



Of the eight countries polled, a majority in five countries — the United States, Canada Mexico, Italy and Britain — say that even if no weapons of mass destruction are found in Iraq, there were other reasons to justify the war.

The AP-Ipsos polls of 930 to just over 1,000 adults in each country were taken Feb. 12-21 and have margins of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

___

story.news.yahoo.com