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Politics : Moderate Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: tsigprofit who wrote (7562)	3/5/2004 12:25:28 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 20773

Could be nuked but if that happens all investments everywhere are screwed. Thermo nuclear war will crash all the markets- though my gold should go through the roof, and my protective puts will look damn good. People here are going to get screwed- the only question is, how intense will it be, and how deep will our economy sink? We can moderate- but cutting off trade is not going to work out. Sorry. It's been tried. Americans will have to get used to less, and find that a rising standard of global living has other benefits (which I think it does, but that needs to be explained to people, so they understand they are getting something). I will use this example- If you have a billion dollars, and everyone around you has nothing, you might be a little anxious that the people with nothing might wish you harm- and a certain percentage of them most certainly will. If, however, you have a million dollars, and your neighbors all have between 400k and 700k- everyone is on a more equal basis, and though there are disparities, people have the necessaries of life, and more, and life is better, and everyone is more secure. That is the way the world will be, eventually, imo. Not as perfectly distributed, but still, we will see a much more fair distribution than we have seen. America has never really "deserved" the absurdly high standard of living it has enjoyed- we could take it, do we did- and now that time is over. Trying to hold on to it, when that will not be effective, is probably the wrong option. We must accept what is happening, and make the best of it.

To: tsigprofit who wrote (7562)	3/5/2004 12:48:17 PM
From: Dale Baker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

I doubt there is anything in US law or WTO regs that would sanction the US government forbidding US companies from outsourcing service needs overseas. If you outlaw Indian call centers while WalMart is manufacturing half its stuff in China, a Federal court is going to throw it out on equal protection grounds in a flash. Tax incentives are just about the only answer. Otherwise we live in a globalized world that can't be returned to autarchy by decree, regardless of the merits.

To: tsigprofit who wrote (7562)	3/6/2004 5:34:19 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Respond to of 20773

Re: But most people here, most workers, are not going to own Indian and Chinese companies. They don't have enough money to invest. What happens to these people in the US? I think when the pain becomes strong enough - solutions will be found - even if that means cutting off all work going to India, etc. Well, I guess more and more American people will work for Chinese multinationals. A dumbfounding prospect, eh? I've read your give and take with X and found it quite interesting... yet, there's a piece missing in your somewhat gloom-and-doom futurology --the piece/concept that globalization is a two-way street! You Americans found it so great, so exhilarating, so exciting indeed when corporate America spread its tentacles overseas, grabbing productive assets in Europe and Asia, carving up market shares in Latin America and North Africa, securing energy resources in the Middle east, and policing the oceans and the straits to allow free and safe passage for US ships.... However, it always upset you when foreigners turned the tables and somehow crashed your home business. Just think of the 1980s when the Japanese bought out prime real estate in NY, California,... or flooded the US market with cheap consumer electronics... Or, more recently, when Alcatel planned to purchase Lucent... Not to mention your stringent media regulations.... Then again, remember how great globalization was in 1998, in the wake of the so-called Asian flu, when most of East Asia's economic assets were up for grabs: US car makers just clutched Mazda (Japan), Hyundai (S Korea), French Renault took a 40%+ stake in Nissan (Japan), Japanese banks and insurance companies were taken over as well, hotels and vacation resorts throughout South East Asia ended up in US vulture funds... while IMF Chief Guru Lamfalussy was touring the region, lecturing Asian leaders on the evils of cronyism and the bliss of unfettered free trade.... Now, as I said, when the whirlwind of globalization twists and turns back against America, the hype turns into grouse --as in the DaimlerChrysler merger, or the Sony-Columbia takeover, or the Vivendi-Universal fiasco.... Bottom line: so long as globalization means ever more subsidiaries and corporate control abroad for US corporations, it's all right! The more the merrier --but, hey, foreigners, stay clear of our home turf! Now, you complain about US companies outsourcing jobs to China but are you sure you want it the other way around? Like it or not, the day will come when Chinese powerhouses will knock at your door.... Chinese carmakers taking over your strapped Fords, GMs,... in Detroit... Chinese banks gobbling up your bankrupt Wall Street icons... Chinese retailers opening up shop in America (just think of a Chinese Wal-Mart!)... Chinese media broadcasting in English (think of a Chinese Al-Jazeera)... The good news, of course, is that corporate China will take some slack out of your jobless workforce and the flip side is that it will mean "Chinese control".... Gus