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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Solon who wrote (16875)	3/31/2004 3:47:45 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 28931

Radicalism in England: Johnson In 1887, Edwin Johnson published in London anonymously the book "Antiqua Mater: A Study of Christian Origins" (http://www.radikalkritik.de/AntiquaMater1.pdf), which continues in the footsteps of B. Bauer, Naber, and Pierson. It examines the testimonies about early Christianity from outside scripture. "It is proved that there's absolutely no reliable witness whatsoever on the life of Jesus or the apostles. Tacitus, if authentic at all, which may be seriously doubted, may easily refer to messianic Jews at Nero's Rome, conflated with Christians under Trajan's time. Justin Martyr, around 150, only has rudimentary knowledge about Jesus and the Apostles, he has no whatsoever knowledge about scripture besides the Tanakh. The Gospels and epistles are nowhere in sight. Christianity evolved from a quietist Jewish Diaspora movement named provisionally Hagioi. They represented a liberal, spiritualized view of the Torah, with deeper moral attachment, but relaxed exterior signs of Judaism, while still sticking to the selected role of the people of Israel. Philo's allegoric teaching about one or more mediators between the transcendent God and the material world is adapted. Gnosticism, a pre-Christian religious movement, is identified as the origin of Christianity as a religion apart from Judaism and decadent forms of pagan cults. The originator of Gnosticism may be Simon Magos of Samaria, who emerged under the rule of Claudius and attracted many followers with exorcisms, magic, prophesies, and mystic, salvific ceremonies. This gave rise to Christianity and a doctrine about heaven, earth, and hell, only to be understood pneumatically. A redeemer is the epiphany of the good (Chrestos) God to spread the doctrine and teach the mysteries. Thus they have been called Chrestoi, which got corrupted into Chrestiani, then Christiani, by the Romans. They invented the symbolic story about the Christ's death under Pilatus. They pirated the myth of Dionysos Eleutherios, a self-sacrificing Godman for the salvific sake of humanity. Paul of the letters is to be seen barely as a historical person, but rather as a possibly idealized Marcionite. Marcion is the reformer of Gnostic doctrine which was invented by Simon Magos. The letter of Galatians is the Marcionite refutation of the antimarcionite Acts of the Apostles. The twelve apostles are an utterly figmentary legend. Churchianist Christianity is a product of the Antoninian period. In any case it's an utterly absurd nonsense to try to understand the Gospels as source for historic research."

To: Solon who wrote (16875)	3/31/2004 11:02:37 PM
From: Greg or e	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 28931

Again, your name calling and personal attacks are relentless and simply go to underscore the poverty of your thinking and the fragility of your "faith". "You came to dismiss atheism, humanism, Islam, Sikhism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and all non-Christian paths as being less worthy and less Godly." Imagine! Atheism is less godly that Theism. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. "I said Josephus, et al, did not mention Jesus." "As it happens, Josephus, who mentions John the Baptist, does not mention Jesus.http://www.siliconinvestor.com/readmsg.aspx?msgid=19347651 It is clear that you think any mention of Jesus found in the works of Josephus were placed there much later by others and therefore "Josephus,... does not mention Jesus. That sir is a lie, and that makes you the liar not me. May I also remind you that it was you who started with the all liar liar comments. I am merely responding in kind. <<<"Flavius Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius, and Pliny the Younger all mention Christ or his followers as well as Jewish sources"...I will dismiss them quickly>>> And I would add, ignorantly. "Your constant attacks on Christians and Jews alike shows that you are also a bigot." As I said, "what's sauce for the goose..." The very existence of this thread is an attack on The God of Christians and Jews specifically. You constantly denigrate and insult all who have the audacity to call you on your bigotry and hate. Too bad you didn't make this a moderated thread so you could silence all your critics. I see a great number of your disciples have seemingly abandoned you. "I am truly sorry that you are unable to handle the discussion without engaging in puerile insults." That's a laughable response, coming from one who cannot go more than a couple of posts without engaging in the above, all I can say is why don't you try it yourself, you might find the change of pace refreshing. For example your response to this.. "99.9 percent of actual scholars in the related field, friend and foe alike, disagree with you. Jesus is an historical person as attested to by the bible and secular history." "That statement is so immature and pathetic... Someone who died last century seems to be the best you can do. Try finding something a little more current. It's beginning to look a lot like "Christ-myth" <<<Harnack himself refused to participate in public dialogues, declaring the Jesus mythers to be amateurs who didn't warrant the dignity of his presence.>>> Even radical left scholars can tell a con job when they see one.