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Politics : Foreign Policy Discussion Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (6679)	4/4/2004 11:44:04 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 15987

Let me see, the US is going break some Israeli arms to force the entry of 100,000 NATO troops into territory that is still under sovereign Israelis control, Do you think Israel would have continued to exists (at least economically) without the patronage and protection of the US? There had better be no resistance on the part of the Israeli government. I believe the Israeli people would breath a sigh of relief, overall, knowing that someone else is finally getting involved to end the terrorism being inflicted upon their country. And of course, the Palestinians would little excuse for claiming that the Israelis continue to repress and inflict terror upon their lives. The US has stood by Israel, saving their bacon in 1973 Yeah, then forced them to 'lose' the war to supposedly salve Arab pride. Screw Arab pride.. And screw Israeli pride as well.... The fact that NATO/UN would have to impose a settlement/solution, using both politico-economic carrot or stick tactics on each, would avoid any semblance of "salving" either side's pride. Look, you are the one who keeps pointing out (correctly) how Arab demography and societal dysfunction is driving Arab craziness. Yeah Nadine, we both agree on that. But what you are asserting is that we don't need to listen to it, or that we should ignore the effect of such irrational madness in their society.. But dammit Nadine.. what do you want us to do... fight them all and launch a clash of civilizations? Is that what you want to wait for? Wait for the 40-50% of the Arab population that is under 18 to reach adulthood, brainwashed with hatred towards Jews, and willing to commit suicide for their beliefs? Are you willing to continue to permit the mass indoctrination of millions of Arab youth to such an anti-Israeli (and American) Jihad simply because you don't think we should refuse to be held hostage to the "arab street" and their irrational beliefs? Listen Nadine... I'm not sure if you're American or Israeli.. (whatever..).. But I'm an American and I have my own perspective of what's important to my world-view.. And it doesn't include room for the Israelis attempts to make the world strictly deal with the Arab Street on a rational, principled, level... Because we know very well that the Islamic militants have their own principles, including sacrificing children and women for their agenda. We're carrying quite a bit of Israel's water here, especially with regard to eliminating the threat of Saddam's Iraq. And now it's time for them to do WHATEVER is required to ensure that we can resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict on terms that give both parties the marjority of what they want.. <iPerhaps settlements feed European anti-Zionism Perhaps? Hello... now who's being irrational? It's obvious.. And given the historical discomfort with Jews and Zionism, as well as the 15 million muslims living amongst them in social limbo, it would make logical sense they would take the side of the Palestinians in order to avoid inflaming domestic passions. Listen Nadine, Israel should pull out of the settlements (as Sharon apparently is in Gaza), "smooth" the 1967 border equitably, declare Jerusalem an international city, and rely upon NATO for the military assistance in dealing with Palestinian fanatics. In fact, I wonder what would happen if Sharon "pre-empted" such a western approach and actually invited NATO forces to take over the nation-building of Palestine. It could also include Jordanian, Turkish, and possibly Egyptian forces as well, in order to internationalize the effort even more. Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza in order to enhance it's security, not to broaden their geographical borders. At least that's their story.. Forget the right and wrong of catering to Arab craziness, Nadine. It's a reality that is festering and infecting the souls of an Arab youth that hopelessly trapped in political and economic stagnation, looking for scapegoats for their condition. And their corrupt and self-centered rulers are only to willing to deflect the blame away from themselves and on to Israel. The only way to destroy such irrational thought is to take action to destroy those myths and force them to have to find another convenient excuse for why they continue to languish economically and politically.. And one of the major steps towards accomplishing that is to deny them the ability to continue using the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as a spoiler for some intro-spective self-examination as to the REAL roots of their condition. Hawk