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To: TobagoJack who wrote (48386)	4/11/2004 6:06:00 AM
From: Seeker of Truth	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

There's no Lincoln or Jefferson on the scene to call most fervently for democracy. There is no Churchill in the US to tell the people to get ready to suffer. No hero arises to say "Look, forget that larger car you dream of, forget that improvement in housing you were looking forward to. The American public has overborrowed.The American government has overspent. We followed a lying president who falsely connected 9/11 to Sadaam. Let's face the truth and leave the middle east to solve or not solve its own problems including Israel. Face the truth and pay more taxes. Particularly if you are rich." Who is the towering figure who will rise to say such things and be acclaimed for it? Would the American public give this hero their support? Absent such a thing, forget any good future for the US and hold on to oil,gas,coal,gold, real estate, the latter outside of the US. Over time, El Matador, people tend to get a leader who is worse than they deserve, so I think. That's because of organization dynamics in which the most vicious treacherous people tend to rise to the top. People defer to them because they are afraid; then the reptiles give them more reasons to be afraid. Large scale disaster finally results; the tyrants are overthrown and ... ??

To: TobagoJack who wrote (48386)	4/11/2004 6:42:19 AM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 74559

Jay, having just read the oath of citizenship from ACF, which I suppose also applies to the USA president, senators and congressors, and considering: <as we cannot reasonably expect a fundamental and thorough reassessment of the US foreign by any incoming administration, so there will not likely be any genuine solutions with a hope in hell of succeeding in veering the world away from its current path. > I think you are right. The citizens and leaders of the USA have sworn to abjure any concept of sharing sovereignty with we alien UnAmerican types. They swear to rule the world, without restriction on their sovereignty. That's not what they think, but because sovereignty in an integrated, diffuse and globalized world isn't a matter of a border 3 miles from the coasts or along a particular latitude, that's what it means unless sovereignty is compromised with we aliens. The air, oceans, spectrum and property are shared with others. A USA subsidiary's property in New Zealand is subject to the sovereignty of both the USA and New Zealand. The irresistible meets the immovable. I wonder what will give. What will the path of the world be as the USA's indivisible high kinetic energy 300 million person sovereignty collides with the high momentum fragmented and fractious 5 billion UnAmerican aliens? People such as mathematically illiterate CB, and anti-tradable citizenship Mary, bound by the oath of allegiance and false belief in indivisible sovereignty, might not get the calculations, but the high momentum of 5 billion low energy people beats the high energy but low momentum of 300 million Americans. To make the mathematics and physics intelligible, it's like a 1.5 ton Ferrari traveling at 300 km per hour colliding with a 30 ton Mack truck bumbling along at 50 km per hour in the opposite direction. 30 ton x 50 momentum versus 1.5 ton x 300 = about 1,500 vs 450 The Ferrari ends up travelling backwards very quickly, while the Mack truck slows to about 30 km/hr. The truck driver feels a significant jolt, whereas the Ferrari drive gets a dramatic feeling of deceleration followed instantly by acceleration in the opposite direction. With the energy equation, things get really interesting. The Ferrari's kinetic energy = 0.5 x 1.5 x 300 x 300 is only a third of the truck's 0.5 x 30 x 50 x 50. 67,500 units versus 37,500. The Ferrari has a lot of energy, but not much momentum. The truck has a lot of momentum, but not a lot of energy. Who ends up going backwards is a matter of momentum, not energy. Then, we come to the rigidity of the respective vehicles which determines the form of the collision, which is even more interesting than the energies. Because Mack trucks have very heavy and rigid steel frames, to cope with heavy loads, they are quite rigid. High performance software-powered Ferraris are designed to be light and slip easily through high head winds. They are not particularly rigid at all. They are one big crumple zone. The hardware of a Mack bends a LOT less than the software of a Ferrari. The effect of the crunch is a kind of splat. The Ferrari ends up looking like a bug stuck in the grill of the Mack. So, the Mack driver thinks, "What the heck was that?" as a red mirage disappears underneath him, and the truck makes a loud noise and he feels a judder as the truck suddenly slows down somewhat. The Ferrari driver thinks, "Oh, oh ... for an instant, then doesn't think anything at all. Okay, it's true that the USA isn't a Ferrari and the rest of the world isn't a Mack truck. Neither do the concepts of kinetic energy and momentum apply in quite the same way to human affairs. But I think the analogy is apt. I am thinking about this in part because during our recent trip, a maniac coming the other way was sliding on a dry road in our direction at about 120 kph, and I was climbing on the ABS brakes with rapidly rising heart rate. He managed to stay mostly on his side of the road. When we went for a nice walk in a forest later, I went through the calculations on momentum and energy and crumple zones and so on to figure out what the outcome might have been in the event of a full frontal collision, a glancing blow, us stopped, and him still zooming, us choosing a collision with stuff off the road instead of him, etc... It's good to be traveling slowly in a Mack truck in the event of collisions. Traveling at high speed in Ferraris is not so good. Mqurice

To: TobagoJack who wrote (48386)	4/11/2004 8:21:40 AM
From: twmoore	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

what difference does it make if the people change their agent who sits in the White House? J But the people that elect the agent are already souring in their support of the illegal war. What MAY happen in the future. 1-June 30 turnover to the council 2-American military remains in the country for many years 3-Many years hence,Americans pick and place a new Saddam to head the council. 4-The new Saddam gains support militarily,takes over the country,upsets the Americans and the whole scenario starts again. Is this what Yogi Berra meant when he said"deja vu all over again"?