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To: redfish who wrote (9728)	4/27/2004 5:16:24 PM
From: rrufff	Respond to of 20773

They didn't die for any of them. They died because we had an administration that, for better or worse, was fixated on Iraq and that Iraq was involved with Al Queda. I'm not defending but giving an opinion of their motivation. Any claim that they did it for Oil or Israel is just plain BS. (Caveat - I am trying to learn more about the Saudi connection and I modify this post to the extent that there may be more to the manipulation from the House of Saud, but I don't claim to know very much about this.)

To: redfish who wrote (9728)	4/28/2004 3:21:58 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Respond to of 20773

Re: All of those beneficiaries are irrelevant, an American soldier should not be asked to die for Jordan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, the Kurds, etc., etc. So why are we asking these kids to die? Israel... Your kids must die for Israel --not for Israel's survival since 200 nukes are quite enough to secure the survival of any country. No, American kids must die in Iraq to maintain the Israeli supremacy in the Mideast and, first and foremost, religious supremacy over Jerusalem. Clue: BUBBA: I'D FIGHT AND DIE FOR ISRAEL By ANDY GELLER and RICHARD JOHNSON August 2, 2002 Bill Clinton - who avoided serving in Vietnam - says he would take up arms and "fight and die" for Israel if Iraq attacks the Jewish state. "If Iraq came across the Jordan River, I would grab a rifle and get in the trench and fight and die," the ex-president said to wild applause at a Jewish fund-raiser in Toronto. Clinton made his bombshell remarks to 350 people who paid $1,000 to break bread with him on Monday night at a dinner for the Toronto Hadassah-WIZO children's charity. Clinton, who tried but failed to make peace in the Middle East the legacy of his presidency, decried the current cycle of violence in Israel. "I don't think there is a military solution to this," he said. "But I know there's not a terrorist solution to it." Clinton also said he disagreed with President Bush that peace can be achieved only when Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat is gone from power. Nevertheless, he said it is important for the United States to remain involved because "Israelis believe that America is the only big country that cares if they live or die." [...] adlusa.com

To: redfish who wrote (9728)	4/28/2004 5:40:26 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 20773

Embedded: America, Israel, and the War on Terror by Marwan Bishara Book Description Embedded shows how (and why) Washington is mimicking Israel's "Chutzpah doctrine." It examines how the "War on Terrorism" is as indispensable for Washington's translation of global power into empire-state-building, as it is for Israel's translation of military superiority into continued domination of Palestinian land. Bishara warns against the Israelization of America-the only remaining super power-and the Americanization of Israel, the last colonial power. These two republics bring out the worst in each other. The military convergence between them over the past three decades has planted the seeds of the current global impasse and War on Terrorism. If America applies Israel's pre-emptive doctrine and bankrupt strategy globally, it will globalize the instability and violence of the Middle East at a very high cost for the world. Eventually it will lead to America's fall. Bishara also explores the unholy alliance between Christian fundamentalism and the Jewish-Israeli right and demonstrates how American evangelists encourage Israeli expansionism and the killing of Palestinians with the same fervor-logic with which they blame the Jews for murdering God. This new and dangerous convergence between the Jewish secular right and the American religious right will haunt both peoples and isolate both countries from the rest of the world. amazon.com