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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Greg or e who wrote (17313)	4/28/2004 9:12:04 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 28931

"I can certainly internalize a morality apart from God." Good! Now we are getting somewhere! Now on what basis would you do so? What moral principles would you follow if God was out of the picture? What values would you hold? Would you love your children if God was out of the picture? Would you have compassion for the poor, the sick, and the afflicted? Would you obey the law and try to live in peace and harmony with those around you? Would you be a decent person--or would you be a vicious misanthrope? "I think it's up to you to demonstrate how that can be broadened into a rational system that is universal in scope." No, it is not up to me to do that. I have claimed that morality was relative. Rational people have (of course) developed rational codes of conduct over the centuries of human social evolution. Of course, there are differences of opinion and these differences are reflected in different societies. "Isn't that just begging the question of what is good and acceptable behavior?" Why is it begging the question? It is simply a more advanced issue of what you know as the Golden Rule. The basic ground of Buddhism is to do no harm to either others or to self. You don't need to belive in Buddhism to believe this is a good thing. After all, it ought to be self evident to you that harming yourself hurts yourself, and that THAT is not a good thing. And if you harm others they will harm you back and peaceful co-existence and the benefits of cooperation will be lost to you. In case you did not know it, all societies have sought to create rules and guidelines in order to achieve safety and harmony. Ancient tribes did it. If you read the Torah you will have an accounting of how they used a priesthood to control behaviour. "Biology would have the strong dominate the weak not grant them equal status" You are off on a tangent. What I meant by a "common biology" was that we are physically and emotionally so evolved as to have similar needs and goals. Our biology includes an advanced nervous system and the capacity for profound reasoning and problem solving. One of the problems which is important for societies to solve is how best to achieve safety and peaceful co-existence between families, groups, and Nations. Centuries ago, a group of people left England for America and then created a Revolution against England and her moral structure which centered on a Church. They believed instead that all people had basic human rights and freedoms, and in particular, that they had the right to worship or not as they saw fit and without coercion or negative consequence. "It seems all you are left with is emotive exhortation to "do the right thing" without the ability to define what the "right thing" would be." You have already admitted that you could have a basis for morality apart from God. You now need only to contemplate and reflect.

To: Greg or e who wrote (17313)	5/1/2004 10:53:58 PM
From: 2MAR$	Respond to of 28931

Biology would have the strong dominate the weak not grant them equal status. Where do you find "fair treatment" in biology? Biology's golden rule is Do unto others before they do unto you. And so would that sum up 1600 yrs of the Social Darwinism of Christianity . Biology and Life are not always to be defined as the complete degenerate "brute and savage" with only the strong to survive . It is not always necessary to paint an ugly immoral picture of life just to validate some icy cold vision of a fallen world full of sin. In fact it is because of life of the minutest creatures that the top predators survive , and myriad other interdependent happenings. Would you like a few 1000 examples? Another blurred and skewed world view finally bites the dust, and hopefully the last of the great medieval religious confrontations and wars from the fanatics of Abraham , are obliterated by modern knowledge. Even little piggies have souls Greg, and have their little crosses to bear. (unless they be possessed by demons , or given a bad name by Orwellian Clerics and Rabbais.) ;-)