Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: salemas who wrote (130257)	4/28/2004 9:21:45 AM
From: GST	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I understand why the Arab world is outraged by Israeli and American policies -- if Americans were privy to the extent to which our national security interests have been "sold-out" for political-ideological-militaristic reasons having nothing to do with securing America, I believe Americans would too be outraged: From your post <.....Back on 16 March 2003, when the world was obsessed with the war that would break out in Iraq three days later, a tragedy occurred on another battlefield 500 miles west of Baghdad. On that day, an Israeli soldier and his commander drove a nine-ton Caterpillar bulldozer over a young American peace activist called Rachel Corrie who was unarmed, clearly visible in a fluorescent jacket and trying to protect a Palestinian home that the Israelis intended to destroy. The Caterpillar was part of the regular US aid to Israel. Israel acquitted its own army of responsibility for Rachel's death--which was taped on video by her appalled friends--and the Bush administration remained gutlessly silent. Rachel's grieving mother Cindi has been a picture of dignity. US citizens, she wrote, "should ask themselves how it is that an unarmed US citizen can be killed with impunity by a soldier from an allied nation receiving massive US aid... When three Americans were killed, presumably by Palestinians, in an explosion on October 15th, 2003 ... the FBI came within 24 hours to investigate the deaths. After one year, neither the FBI nor any other US-led team has done anything to investigate the death of an American killed by an Israeli." Well, the answer is that Bush and his administration know how to shut themselves up when it pays them to do so. That's what Condoleezza Rice initially tried to do when summoned before the 11 September hearings. And, thanks to the subservience of many members of the White House and Pentagon press corps, the administration has an easy time. Why, for example, no press conference questions about Rachel Corrie? It seems that as long as you say "war on terror", you are safe from all criticism. For not a single American journalist has investigated the links between the Israeli army's "rules of engagement"--so blithely handed over to US forces on Sharon's orders--and the behaviour of the US military in Iraq. The destruction of houses of "suspects", the wholesale detention of thousands of Iraqis without trial, the cordoning off of "hostile" villages with razor wire, the bombardment of civilian areas by Apache helicopter gunships and tanks on the hunt for "terrorists" are all part of the Israeli military lexicon. In besieging cities--when they were taking casualties or the number of civilians killed was becoming too shameful to sustain--the Israeli army would call a "unilateral suspension of offensive operations". They did this 11 times after they surrounded Beirut in 1982. And yesterday, the American army declared a "unilateral suspension of offensive operations" around Fallujah. Not a word on this mysterious parallel by America's reporters, no questions about the even more mysterious use of identical language. And in the coming days, we shall--perhaps--find out how many of the estimated 300 dead of Fallujah were Sunni gunmen and how many were women and children. Following Israel's rules is going to lead the Americans into the same disaster those rules have led the Israelis. But I guess we'll shut up about it.>

To: salemas who wrote (130257)	4/28/2004 10:23:40 AM
From: Sig	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

<<The planners of the war in Iraq have just one answer to their critics: 'shut up' >>> Let me answer with the statement.... "if we had only known" 1. If we had known in WW2 that we were losing 30 ships per week in our convoys to Europe along with most of their crews, instead of the 2 per week reported by the Press. What do you think would have happened to the morale of all the workers building them here, or to their crews. ? 2. If the German sub crews had known how many subs they were losing, and that over 90% were die in a watery grave what would it do to their morale.? 3. Does it matter what FDR had in mind when he declared war, or started a war, or suckered Japan into starting a war? Was there an alternate way we could have stayed out of the conflict when Hitler was on the verge of invading Britain.? 4. Should we have told the truth to the troops taking one island in the Pacific that the Japanese troops were ferocious warriers, that 20000 of our soldiers would be lost in taking the island, that 3 days of naval and air bombardment would have little effect since they were dug in so deep. ? 5. Should we have told our aviators in WW1 that their average life in combat would be 3 days? In a war morale and confidence is everything. Without it all is lost. Saddam had 800,000 tons of weapons and did not get to use them because the shock and awe campaign broke their will to fight. Now the important question to ask is "are we at war"? We are trying to conduct this war on terror with scaring the H%%l out of our own people. So that our economy can survive and prosper because its going to be a long war. We have been told of the seriousness of this war, but there are still plenty of non-believers .It is not important to figure how we got here except for writing history books or studying how to avoid wars. We have had some big wars, the War to End all Wars, the Iraeli / Pal conflict continues unabated. Africa is a powder keg. Has all the learning about the horrors of war ended conflicts? There were 77 active wars in 1997. Trains are being blown up in Spain, in France, 20 tons of explosives are found in Turkey, or 5 truck loads in SA, or plans for further destruction in Spain found in the terrorists belongings. We are missing some big buildings and uncovering numerous plots by Al Queda cells. The train incident in N Korea gives a clue to how much destruction can be caused by a train wreck. The old motto, "Loose Lips Sink Ships" had true meaning- if the German subs knew when a convoy was leaving, and the route it would take that convoy is "history". Or a soldier writes home: " Dear Folks. We are shipping out tomorrow. I have heard that we are sending a fake invasion force to Calais, but that was just to fool the Germans we are really going to Normandy" How would you like to see that info written up in a newspaper by the Press in using their guaranteed freedom of speech? In conclusion each person has to decide- are we at war or not and how serious is the war?. I happen to see it one way, others another way. The Administration is being very open about our operations in Iraq. But the Press is not being allowed to hear about all the terrorist threats that are being intercepted or being planned lest it give away our sources and aid the enemy. Sig

To: salemas who wrote (130257)	4/28/2004 2:15:03 PM
From: Don Hurst	Respond to of 281500

>>"The moment I suggested that this was a massive case of self-delusion, Perle replied that Fisk had "always been for the maintenance of the Baathist regime". I got the message. Anyone who condemned this bloody mess was a secret Baathist, a lover of the dictator and his torturers. Thus far have the falcons of Washington fallen."<< Typical Perle stuff...when Wolf Blitzer of CNN pushed Perle on a Seymour Hersh article critical of Perle's financial dealings, Perle called Hersh a journalism "terrorist". How these Likudist Neocons gained power in the USA is a damn scandal! Another one, Bernard Lewis, was on Charlie Rose last night and that idiot said that Chalaby would be a good leader of Iraq.