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To: Stan who wrote (37159)	5/2/2004 10:16:25 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

"Christ both fulfilled these in His church and will do so with Israel when He returns." Your answer clearly shows that you recognized the weakness of your theological beliefs because you attempted to confuse and hide the fact that you really do not believe that the prophecies in Jeremiah 31: 31-33 were fulfilled because in your mind "Israel" had not yet been saved. You know that if Christ did not fulfill these scriptures then he could not possibly be the Messiah. So you had to invent a "partial fulfillment" by using the Church in order to justify your belief in a future fulfillment in modern Talmudic Judaism (a totally unscriptural and false theology). In fact it was fully fulfilled in the Church because the Church is Israel and was founded by the remnant of Jews from the House of Israel and the House of Judash. The idea that this prophecy was not fulfilled is clearly an antichrist Jewish point of view. Your attempt to bypass this denial by throwing in "Christ both fulfilled these in His Church", and "will do so with Israel" in the future only exposes your deceitful spirit on this matter. You can see that the prophecy has to be fulfilled but since you hold false understanding of who the Israel is under the new covenant you are forced to seek a future fulfillment that violates the prophecy. The Church is no where mentioned in this prophecy, and you do not believe that the Church is the new Israel of God so you had to search for a meaningless partial fulfillment. We know that in order for the prophecy to be fulfilled the new covenant must be with Israel and Judah. Let us examine the Jeremiah prophecy once more to make it clear: eremiah 31 31: Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (There is NO mention of Church here, so this prophecy can only be fulfilled in Israel and Judah.) 32: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel(Again in order for the prophecy to be fulfilled it must be with Israel); After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Paul clearly resolves the issue for us in Hebrews 8 by showing that these specific scriptures in Jeremiah 31 had already been fulfilled when he was writing the book of Hebrews: 6: But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7: For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8: For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10: For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (Paul repeats the OT prophecy to prove to the Hebrews that Chrsit had already fulfilled it." 11: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12: For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13: In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Now that Jesus has established the new covenant the old covenant is decaying and vanishing away. When God destroyed the Second Temple, the Temple furniture, the Levitical priesthood and the entire old order in 70A.D., the old covenant--the type and shadow--"vanished away".) In the 8th chapter of Hebrews Paul conclusively proves throug the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that Jesus had fulfilled Jeremiah 31 by making a new covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. The reason you are confused about these issues is because you lack an understanding of the meaning of: 1. Kingdom of God 2. Israel 3. Church You confuse the Kingdom of God that Jesus established with its' shadow and antitype--the kingdom of Israel under the old covenant. Once the substance arrives, then the shadow and the atitype are no longer needed. Israel under the new covenant Kingdom of God is the Christian Church. I solidly established this with dozens of scripture references but you failed to understand these scriptures. So the correct answer is Christ fulfilled these in his Church because the Church is the New Israel of God under the New covenant. You may not realize it, but if you do not believe that Jesus fulfilled Jeremiah 31 by making a new covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah, then you are, like the Talmudic Jews, denying that Jesus is the Messiah. Those who deny that Jesus is the Messiah that fulfilled the scriptures of the OT are not Christians. The scripture was fulfilled when at first tens of thousands of Jews accepted Christ(the Apostles and disciples among them) and by the time the Second Temple had been destroyed and the fullness of Gentiles had come into the Church it is estimated that hundreds of thousands of additional Jews were saved. These Jews were the remnant spoken of in prophecy who over the whole known world and converted men from every nation to Christ.

To: Stan who wrote (37159)	5/2/2004 10:56:49 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

"Paul teaches this too in Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob." And all Israel was saved just as the scriptures prophesied! Your problem arises because you have NO understanding of what makes a real Israelite in both the Old and New Ts. You think Israel is the seed of Abraham, as in genetics, rather than SEED singular meaning Christ as St. Paul tried to teach you to no avail. If the promises belong to the genetics of Abraham plural, then the children of Esau and the children of Keturah would all have inherited the promises. We would have a Gospel based on race rather than a Gospel based on righteousness by faith.(very similar to the Nazi race theories where they substituted Germanic genes for Jewish genes) It was never about genetics, but about the "faith of Abraham". It was the faith of Abraham that made him chosen, not his genetics. It was the faith of Isaac that made him chosen, not his genetics. It was the faith of Jacob that made him chosen, not his genetics. It was the faith St. Paul that made him chosen, not his genetics. It was the lack of faith of Judas Iscariot that condemned him, not his genetics. The genes of Abraham in Judas Isacariot could not help him because he lacked the faith of Abraham. The pure genes of those who rejected Christ in the Sanhedrin could not help them because they lacked the faith of Abraham.

To: Stan who wrote (37159)	5/2/2004 11:18:24 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Has God restored the kingdom to Israel? Yes he has, but not according to the shadow and type of the OT that the modern Ziochristians would like to reestablish in modern Palestine/Israel but rather according to the substance and antitype--a kingdom of righteouness,peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, not a kingdom of meat and drink as in the shadow kingdom of the OT. 6: When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7: And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8: But(forget your ideas about a worldly kingdom after the shadow and type that I used in the OT) ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:(The Kingdom of God will operate through the power of the Holy Ghost) and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth: Is this interpretation correct? Did the Apostles and disciples get a NEW understanding of what is the Kingdom of God after receiving the baptism of the Holy Soirit on the Day of Pentecost? One way to prove this is to examine the writings of the Apostles and disciples after the occurences in the first chapter of Acts. In the next post we will examine the writings of the Apostles to get a glimpse of how they understood the Kingdom of God after Pentecost!

To: Stan who wrote (37159)	5/5/2004 1:24:36 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

An apology for Stan! Stan, in rereading my post about explaining Jeremiah 31, I feel that I did not express myself accurately. Message 20085514 In the end of the post I imply that you are not a Christian if you deny that Jeremiah 31 was fulfilled by Christ. This is not what I meant to convey. Only a denial of Christ as the Messiah and son of God can destroy your salvation. Holding wrong views about prophecy is a grievous matter and can do great harm to Christians and the Church, but does destroy ones salvation, thank God. So I humbly ask your forgiveness for these false implications. Emile