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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: el_gaviero who wrote (131358)	5/4/2004 10:59:29 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

To take a small but crucial example, meditate on this one fact: there is a very high degree of consanguinity (cousin marriage) among the people of Iraq. Apparently you haven't traveled to some of the deepest portions of the south... :0) I have cousins, sad to say, who have married one another... But more importantly, this "clan" tradition you speak about is not much different than the European clans which eventually formed into western european nation/states.. And yes.. the clan is important, but many of them are no longer listening to their clan leaders. They are following foreign values and the power of the clan is waning throughout the region... That is the eventual fate of economic empowerment and the ability to lead independent lives.. But take a look at Japan.. They also were very clannish. And they also remain extremely xenophobic (my girl friend is Japanese, and she has said as much).. And their entire society was effectively closed off to ALL foreign influence, ruled by shoguns, and hostile to western influence.. And where are they now? People telling me that the Arab world can't change is contrary to historical evidence for similar close knit and homogenous societies... But it requires will and determination to see it through.. And it sure would help if this were international will, and not just the willpower of 30 (and mainly 2 primary) participants. Especially when it is Europe that will primarily have to deal with an increasingly radicalize militant muslim population fleeing there because they have no economic opportunity in their own countries. As for your other comments about "over the long term" style governments, we've seen that history is full of those. We've seen Islamic Caliphates, the Ottoman Empire, Romans, British... etc, etc, etc... And we know that those empires are fleeting, rising and falling because they are no explicit legitimacy except by purveying the belief that their rule is by God's (Allah's) will. What form of government can be stronger than one where the people have actual ownership of the means of production, and a government which is ultimately accountable to the popular will of the people it governs? And bottom line, I would tell those "invaders" that there's a DAMN GOOD REASON people are risking their lives to CREATE A NEW LIFE HERE... So maybe the invaders should reconsider the logic upon which they have based their invasion.. If anything, they recognize that they will NEVER be able to create a society that equals that of the US... They certainly are never going to create a society where Americans are scrambling to emigrate to their own empire.. I appreciate your unique perspective regarding the clan aspects of the mid-east.. But please never forget the fact that the US is the most widely multi-cultural population of people on the face of the planet. We are the vision of the future, IMO.. A country where ideals and talents are rewarded, and family ties and elitist connections really don't impress (at least no more than superficially). We're a nation that the world's population of physically and economically oppressed people can find a new start and new hope.. And that's something I think is worth advocating around the world... Certainly the minute we start feeling ashamed, or doubting our right to foster and create such change, when necessary, then we're likely to lose sight of our national identity. Hawk