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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sarmad Y. Hermiz who wrote (132365)	5/9/2004 3:55:52 PM
From: Paul van Wijk	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

1. After the War the Germans involved in the holocaust also used the Befehl ist Befehl-argument for their defense. I'm not trying to compare things, my point is that any individual is responsible for his own deeds. 2. The fact that he received orders only prove that others are ALSO guilty, not that he is innocent or even worse, a victim. This behavior is what making Chip (and others, including Kapinsky) a true coward. 3. Chip the Coward was bragging to his parents about his actions in Abu Ghriad BEFORE the investigation started in january. After that he started asking questions to the chain of command. I call this 'building up a case after you know that you are in trouble'. There is no way this can compared to what the real hero Darby did. Chip is a coward. 4. I am absolutely stunned by the fact that so far everyone is pleading 'not guilty'. The soldiers, the general, Rumsfeld, Bush, Myers. They all have excuses, they are all fingerpointing to others, they simply deny their own responsibility and especially the guys at the white house seem to suffer memory problems (Rumsfeld 'As far as I can remember it was somewhere between january and may, get real'). But also 'the relatives' who are completely in state of denial and trying to defend the undefendable. This is not my son, this is not my daughter, this is not American. Bllsht, it are their suns/daughters, they are Americans and they have at least humiliated other human beings. Be a man and face the facts. 5. When we look at the most independent resources like Amnesty International, the International Committee of the Red Cross but also even the Taguba-report the only conclusion can be; it is only the tip of the iceberg, it is systematic, it is illegal, it is about in some cases talking about warcrimes and it goes all the way to the top. And still everybody is washing his hands in innocence. And still your Government ask the rest of humanity to see you as the moral leaders of the world. Beats me. 6. Their new slogan will be "No price is too high for liberty". I am afraid you will be right, especially while the Bush-administration runs the White House (not saying I support John Kerry, I hardly know where he stands for). Although I don't like the idea I prefer it when the US is honest about it. If this is the new America, be honest about it and immediately stop accusing or even invading other countries because of violations of human rights. Also keep in mind that when the US don't find it necessary to act within the boundaries of the Geneva Conventions, you gave your enemies the right to do the same. I have seen the pictures of what they did to the 4 contractors. Inhuman acts. But also keep in mind how Private Lynch was treated by Iraqi doctors. Some Muslims are animals, just as some Americans are. But the majority are just human beings, just like the majority of the US people. From the open letter by Amnesty International to GWB the following quote Amnesty International recalls your statement on 26 June 2003, made on the occasion of the United Nations International Day in Support of Victims of Torture, in which you said that "the United States is committed to the worldwide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example". news.amnesty.org IMO you can't have it both way. Either you respect human rights, or either you don't. But pretending to be the moral leader of the world and doing the opposite is what we call a double standard of moral. 7. I'm Dutch, we have 1100 soldiers in Iraq. I am paying tax money to help you clean the mess Bush created by invading Iraq. So I think at least I have a right to have an opinion like this. We never believed in this war, but we are solidair with the US because we have a memory over here that goes back more than 60 years. Solidairity has it's price. And that is the reason I hope our soldiers will stay in Iraq (parliament has to vote about it in 2 months). But being solidair doesn't means that I agree with the war in Iraq. I wished Bush had taken the #1 guru on terrorism, Mr. Clarke, for serious. I am sure we would have lived in a (relatively) safer world. Paul