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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Paul van Wijk who wrote (132376)	5/9/2004 4:07:45 PM
From: h0db	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Good points, Paul. Also note that Frederick and Graner, whom some have called the ringleaders of the abusive treatment, were prison guards in civilian life. Frederick (and his wife) worked at a medium-security prison in Virginia. Graner worked since 1996 as a guard at a maximum -security prison in Pennsylvania. First, what does it tell you that some of the worst abuser were civilian prison guards? They knew exactly what they were doing and knew it would have been illegal in a US context. Don't tell me they didn't know the Geneva Convention or US Army regulations on handling prisoners. Second, this also puts lie to the idea that these were a few bad apples. They reflect a segment of American society that we don't want to see. The military reflects society, for good or ill.

To: Paul van Wijk who wrote (132376)	5/9/2004 7:18:29 PM
From: Sarmad Y. Hermiz	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Paul, Thank you for your response. When I was in the US Army in 1970, I too was told that I must not obey an illegal order. However, if I did disobey, I can expect to be thrown in the stockade (prison), and I better hope that a courts martial would agree with me. Which is nearly impossible. It takes a huge amount of courage to disobey an order. It takes less courage to stick with one's buddies and sink-or-swim together, than to pull oneself to the side and tell a commanding officer that an order is illegal. My opinion is still that the orders to treat the prisoners in a humiliating manner was directed by the interrogators with the knowledge and approval of their commanders. Regarding the MP guards, a humane person would not have stayed in that job very long. So only sadistic people gravitate to that job, anyway. From the lowest rank to the highest. The problem with convicting the MP's in a short trial is that the interrogators will get away free. Very likely the MP's will be told that if they dispute the charges, or try to implicate the interrogators, then the MP's will be hit with severe penalties. Wheres if they just make a weak defense, then they will get a demotion in rank, or a general early discharge.