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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (132630)	5/11/2004 2:55:27 PM
From: Sig	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<<The point I'm making, however, is that the America that I love is not solely a place or a people, it's a living idea that's wrapped up in our constitution, our Bill or Rights, our effective court system, an educated and informed pool of voters that share my love for freedom and justice, a nation that has always accepted the rights of other nations and a whole package that constitutes what it is that makes America "America." >> So what justice should America deal out to those 5 hooded men who stood behind Mr Berg before cutting off his head.? Justice that reflects the values that we want to be known for in the world, or justice that is appropriate in US eyes to the deed they performed.? I would like to know that to tell if we have to provide lawyers to all these terrorists. Naked in prison does not seem sufficient Turn the other cheek- thats suicide and the villian goes free They did not give anyone a fair trial, so I would suggest a head-for-head solution without the attorney costs. But what ideas do others have? Sig

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (132630)	5/11/2004 3:54:44 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

is there ANYTHING that you're beloved administration has done wrong? (Your president couldn't think of a single mistake...can you?) Sure... And I can name mistakes made by DOD, and various other agencies.. I can also name mistakes made by many countries who directly opposed the overthrow of Saddam's regime, despite its intransigence.. And you know something?.. There are going to be more mistakes.. Any number of them. And you know something else? We going to have to fix them and "drive on" as best we can in order to achieve the strategic mission.. The question you need to ask yourself is not so much who's to blame for the mistakes, but who's to blame for not fixing them and accomplishing the mission. But maybe you don't believe the mission of trying to create a viable and moderate Iraqi state is worthwhile... Maybe you'd prefer to just see them kill one another in a huge civil war?? That's not the case today since we have many democratic governments throughout the world, we just happen to be the oldest and the most powerful. Funny... I would think that being the most powerful democracy would have little to do with being the oldest, but rather being the best amongst all of them. The point I'm making, however, is that the America that I love is not solely a place or a people, it's a living idea that's wrapped up in our constitution, our Bill or Rights, our effective court system, an educated and informed pool of voters that share my love for freedom and justice, a nation that has always accepted the rights of other nations and a whole package that constitutes what it is that makes America "America." Beautiful speech Cnyndwllr!! And I absolutely agree with every part of it. And I also believe that we, as a democracy, have an OBLIGATION to spread such ideals around the world, where and when the opportunity presents itself. And Iraq is one of those opportunities, created by the agression and continuing intransigence in the face of 17 different UNSC resolutions attempting to preserve a potential for the creation of such similar democratic values as you espouse. But now, it would see you want us to drop all of those values, selfishly and arrogantly keeping them all to ourselves and not helping to achieve those same values for the Iraqi people who want to have a say in how they are governed. And that's a sad attitude to have... Because who amongst them will stick their necks out to help us if we're unwilling to do the same for them.. And what are you going to say to those parents years from now, when this country is going to have ONCE AGAIN confront and fight an even more organized militant movement, financed by those Iraqi (and probably Saudi) oil revenues? And what will you tell the millions of muslim youths whom we're surrendering to the clutches of Islamic militancy because we didn't believe their futures were worth fighting for? Hawk