To: Haim R. Branisteanu who wrote (6274 ) 5/13/2004 10:58:32 AM From: mishedlo Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 116555 Post on the FOOL from GS to Andy. This is in response to Andy that thinks home prices have nowhere to go but up. He pointed out thathousing prices in MA have gone uo 13 straight years and will continue to do so. From GS: ==================================================== With all due respect, and I do mean that because I have read your previous posts, I have to disagree with you quite vehemently on this topic. I am not a regular on this board (I tend to interrupt instead and use it as one learning tool among many), nor do I daytrade or follow the market on a daily basis, but I do like to observe human nature and I read almost everything I can get my hands on. I also agree with you, on principle, that the U.S. is a great nation. Our actions as Americans, unfortunately, often do not coincide with that belief. What I have observed in the past few years is the following: >> Credit card debt is at an all-time high (around 8000/household). This means that some people are 100,000 + in debt to make up for the debtless households like yours and mine. Check out the credit card discussion group for the reality of living with this kind of debt. And those are the people who are actually trying to dig their way out instead of going bankrupt. >> Bankruptcy is at an all-time high. Who is paying for this, ultimately? >> Health care costs are out of this world. I know. I have personally seen how families are struggling to get care and then pay the bills if they are not insured, which a record number of families are not. >> Houses have appreciated to a point that my husband and I cannot afford the type of house that our parents, had they been in the same professions, could have afforded. I have had to explain this to my parents as well, as they find it hard to believe that we don't have a nicer house. I recommend the book "The Two Income Trap" that was mentioned here about a week ago. Does this mean that we can't buy a nicer house? No, but that amount of debt makes us mighty uncomfortable, and puts us at risk for bankruptcy as well should my husband lose his job. >> Job loss is a reality. OK, unemployment is somewhere above 5 and below 10%. How many people are working below their educational level? My husband is extremely well educated but still fears losing his job. He used to work for Great Big Corporation (which he left for a better position), and GBC employed people in your generation for "life". Our generation? Until the next wave of downsizing, outsourcing (yes, it's happening even with Highly Educated Professionals), or less than optimal performance (I don't mean slacking off, I mean optimal). Severance pay? If you are lucky. >>We know households earning 60K who buy a new car every year. Every year. Do the math. They aren't saving up to buy a new car every year. >> Cash out refinancing? All time high. Home equity? All time low. Foreclosures? Another high (in my area). Creative financing? Don't get me started. I just got a call yesterday from a sales guy who demanded to know why I didn't want an interest only mortgage. Were you getting calls like that in the 60's? >> Everyone and his brother was buying real estate as an investment in the past few years. Everyone who's lost her job seems to be going into real estate in some form (realtor, mortgage "counselor"). Someone here mentioned how many houses were being bought to sit empty and let appreciate. Ding! Ding! Makes the bells go off in my head. >>Does my generation of Americans feel a real attachment to their homes? I don't. People move all the time now. That Disney ideal is not the reality my friends and I are living. Just the other day I was noticing how many houses are for sale in my area. The turnover is constant. When I was a little kid I don't remember anyone moving out of my neighborhood for about 5 years. >> Let's not even get into retirement. Suffice it to say that my parents did not even save explicitly for retirement and are doing quite well on my father's pension. We don't have a pension plan, so it's up to us. Are we pessimists instead of good ol' American optimists? Maybe, although I'm an optimist about this country for the long term, and I haven't turned pessimistic about the U.S. financial situation until the past year. Maybe it has to do with my general abhorance for the current state of affairs. I don't think that saying that real estate could decline is somehow un-American. I wish I could agree with you that only college students are in debt, but my reality shows me that a lot of people are in debt, as the ad says, up to their eyeballs. Expectations are financial reality are at odds with each other, which probably wasn't the case 40 years ago (the absolute barrage of celebrity lifestyles is toxic, IMHO). You might enjoy reading Anna Quindlen's editorial to the Class of 2004 in Newsweek this week (last page) to see how the next generation is doing. It is a wonderful commentary on reality. I do hope you are right, Andy, because it would make our future so much easier. You have obviously done very well in spite of a difficult beginning and the respect is truly all mine. GS