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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Road Walker who wrote (188896)	5/20/2004 11:47:40 AM
From: tejek	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 1577883

John, Looking at the news this morning reads like the Sodom and Gomorrah Gazette. Its amazing how screwed up things are all over the world and how much of it is tied to the US, directly and indirectly. ted

To: Road Walker who wrote (188896)	5/20/2004 6:57:41 PM
From: TimF	Respond to of 1577883

It's designed for thoughtless action and discipline. That might be the result sometimes but it is not the design, at least not for all situations. At every level of the chain in command including the lowest private there is a responsibility not to follow illegal orders. The fact that prisoner abuse has happened in more then one place doesn't mean it is a policy. Prisoner abuse happens in prisons all over the US and non-military prisons around the world as well. But I agree with you that the responsibility goes beyond the particular people who where in the pictures or who where otherwise identified as illegally abusing prisoners. I wouldn't be surprised if some military intelligence officers hinted that some form of "severe pressure" should be applied to the prisoners. Perhaps if they where careless enough they even gave direct specific orders. Also whatever level the illegal actions or orders for illegal actions came from, I would say the person at least one level above that one would be responsible for failure to control the situation. I don't think they would be criminally liable but they would be rightfully subject to a level of reprimand that would ruin their carriers and depending on the specifics they should probably be relieved of duty. Brigadier General Janis Karpinski already has been suspended. If she is to be believed it was military intelligence running the show but she let them do it. She was in charge and if not directly complicit in the abuse she allowed for an undisciplined environment where law and policy where not respected. I don't think she is being made a scapegoat. I think the suspension was justified. Tim

To: Road Walker who wrote (188896)	5/20/2004 7:02:20 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1577883

re: As for scapegoating Rummy I'm not sure that would help Bush much. Today, Pres Bush took decisive action in the face of the moral.... It would put it behind him, everything else that comes of it would be second page news. Now it goes on forever. I don't think it would work like that. Some people view the current actions as decisive, others who do not would view pushing Rummy out to be enough and might stop complaining, but others would view Rummy as a scapegoat and would say that Rummy falling on his sword changes nothing, still others would take that as proof that things are even worse then they are now and that the prisoner abuse was sanctioned by Rummy and perhaps even by Bush with Rummy taking the fall to cover for Bush. People would have a lot of different responses but the bottom line is that pushing Rummy out isn't likely to make the news story a minor one. Tim